Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

 

"Review the manager in December..."

Status
Not open for further replies.
njligernj said:
I think Martinez is a mega club manager and needs a mega club budget. Now before people get internet mad at me I'm not saying I think he's that good. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. I have no idea.

What I'm saying is his best fit -- the job in which you'll see peak Martinez (whatever that represents) -- is a job in which he can get all the pieces he needs so you can see his vision realized. He doesn't compromise; a trait which can be good but can also be very bad. Maybe he doesn't need City money but I think he needs at least RS or Spurs money.

Martinez wants to build a Ferrari and has no interest in driving a Lexus or a BMW for a few years while he builds the Ferrari on the side. It's all Ferrari all the time.

Moyes is a great example of the inverse: a manager for whom restricted budgets bring out "peak Moyes" and the big club scenario isn't his forte.

Moyes will mod a Honda so much that it looks exactly like a Mercedes ... to the point you don't remember it's a Honda until the race starts and you're like "oh right I remember now we have a Honda and we are going to lose horribly." Moyes would even get billionaires to buy our Hondas because they genuinely thought they were luxury sports cars. It was also his weakness: when he finally got a Lexus or BMW (or eventually actual Ferraris) in his garage Moyes would treat them all like a Civic.

IF we get new owners what kind of spend levels can we expect? That to me would influence the decision on the manager.

Martinez has a very obvious strategy with his public comments which makes judging him on anything but results difficult (and results aren't great of late ... "of late" being the last 18 months).

If I'm the new owners I want to sit down and have a real conversation with Martinez.

I want to hear him say negative stuff about our players! To acknowledge the defence is a shambles and he needs help.

I want to hear him say "I wanted to bring in Andros Pistamooli from Napoli to coach defence but we didn't have the budget" and "I wanted to bring in Greatzi Defendereeno from Roma to solidify our backline and Monty Stopsalot from Fenerbache in nets" so I can be all "well now you can afford them!"

If the conversation I have with him is along those lines then he gets a vote of confidence and stays.

If it's all just the same bollocks from press conferences (or most likely a toned down version but along the same refusing to admit problem area lines) and we don't win the Cup (or recover and finish top 5) then I'd likely look elsewhere.

The ambition of the new owners is a factor too. While I don't see them spending to Chelsea/City/United levels if they have even a RS level budget then it's possible they'd have stars in their eyes about one of the big name managers out there?

The bizarre and achingly ironic truth is that the best possible manager for the current Everton football club is possibly 75% Martinez and 25% Moyes.

No way I'd make a change before the end of the season though. He should get three years.
Click to expand...


And out after eighteen months on the grounds of good behaviour !
 
@ijjysmith
image.webp


:p
I'll take that like as an apology
 
For some reason everton managers become more conservative as time goes on.

First season he made risky subs to win games, changed formations mid game and played whoever deserved the shirt.

If he cannot do better than 8th with this squad we need to look elsewhere.

Time to judge is end of season Imo.
 
After a poor campaign in 2014-15, we said lets judge him after the first set of fixtures, so up to Christmas if you will.

So, do we keep moving the goal posts on when to judge him because he is failing and we all want him to do well. Or do we bite the bullet and say it is a steady downward spiral?

In 4 weeks, we will know if we will be in a cup final, but if we aren't and we are still in the bottom half of the table, then I guess that could well be the cut off point for many,
 

We're probably the most underachieving team in the league right now, bar Chelsea. Our first XI, on paper, is superb, and a couple of the subs are very good too. There's no excuse for being where we are in the league really. He's doing a lot of things right off the pitch in building our academy up and also strengthening the first team, but on the pitch there's the Howard problem and the defensive colander issue, and that's not even including set pieces which are woeful.

He deserves more time to turn things round as you can see there's something going on but we're incredibly frustrating to watch. I would be much happier if I felt that he was rectifying these things but I'm not at all convinced he even looks at them as genuine problems that need fixing.

Hopefully new owners come in, have a chat to establish whether he's actually on the ball re the teams/his own weaknesses, or whether hes got his head in the sand about them. These players won't be sticking around forever if we come outside the top 6 again.
 
Axlswhk said:
Nothing much has change mate, we're still mid table and I'll be outside your window with a haversack.
Click to expand...

We're playing some cracking football which is a massive step up from last season.

If the choice was just between mid-table playing great football or grinding out results then it's a no brainer, lets be entertained.

But we're aiming higher than mid table, which means we need to sort out the problems at the back.

Martinez is going nowhere in the short term so, at a mimimum he's got half a season to show some improvement in defence. It won't take a lot of improvement to convince me he's worth sticking with, but it does need to improve.
 

Woolly Blue said:
We're playing some cracking football which is a massive step up from last season.

If the choice was just between mid-table playing great football or grinding out results then it's a no brainer, lets be entertained.

But we're aiming higher than mid table, which means we need to sort out the problems at the back.

Martinez is going nowhere in the short term so, at a mimimum he's got half a season to show some improvement in defence. It won't take a lot of improvement to convince me he's worth sticking with, but it does need to improve.
Click to expand...

Tongue in cheek mate, this place is getting too serious with all the faction war.
 
Woolly Blue said:
We're playing some cracking football which is a massive step up from last season.

If the choice was just between mid-table playing great football or grinding out results then it's a no brainer, lets be entertained.

But we're aiming higher than mid table, which means we need to sort out the problems at the back.

Martinez is going nowhere in the short term so, at a mimimum he's got half a season to show some improvement in defence. It won't take a lot of improvement to convince me he's worth sticking with, but it does need to improve.
Click to expand...
Problem is i have the feeling every time someone mentions the word defence he sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts "la la la la i can`t hear you".
 
GrandOldTeam said:
Back in February, I created this thread: Martinez: The Reality

Context wise, it was created after a late own goal salvaged a draw with Leicester at Goodison. The BBC's match report linked labelled us as draw specialists - with merit, it was our 5th draw on the spin, our 7th draw in 13 home games, winning just 3. It all meant we had just 28 points from 26 games.

My view was although the season was grim, a complete write off - Martinez would change it around.

And so, I suggested that we all would be wise to give Martinez time;



It's December. What's changed?

Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity I thought I'd have to sit here smugly and say "I told you so..." because, not much has changed. We're still draw specialists, we're still massively frustrating, we're still looking at our team on paper and thinking we're boss but then flattering to deceive.

This team is two years on, two years more mature from the team that finished 5th with out highest ever Premier League points total but it's a fair shout to say that we've not kicked on as we'd hoped, or expected - if anything we've regressed.

The consensus is that this is the best Everton squad for many a years - yet our last 57 games (38 last season+19 so far this season) has seen W18, D19, L20. That's a win rate of just 31%. Managers at lesser clubs have been sacked with a better record, rightly or wrongly, that's the game and so, talk of Martinez' position isn't to be so readily brushed off.

Our football is sexier to last season and notably we're passing with greater intent - Lukaku is benefiting from having some quality in the final third in Deulofeu and a confident Barkley - but, the actual output is comparative to last season. Domestically, we're marginally better vs same point last season - we're 5 points better off, and 1 place higher. It's disappointing. We all know it, only this week have we had senior players like Barry, and key players like Lukaku talking up a disappointing campaign. We've scored 6 more vs last season, and amazingly, conceded 3 less. We're also still in a domestic cup, an improvement on being dumped out the first time of asking last season. An improvement, but an overall performance that is underwhelming and ultimately, not good enough.

Through GrandOldTeam, I'm well positioned to gauge fan sentiment and sentiment towards Martinez, is at least in my opinion, at an all time low. My opinion is reaffirmed by some actual professional sentiment analysis but that's for the end of the season...

Despite the increasing focus on the manager, I'm convinced that clubs like Everton get nowhere chopping and changing managers and whether fans like it or not, Roberto Martinez will remain Everton's manager for many years to come - unless he wants off himself, or there's a change of board to one which genuinely aspires to the clubs motto with greater expectations.

The Everton manager, under Everton's existing regime benefits from, and enjoys having arguably the safest football job in England. Of course, there's benefit to that in stability, but the negative is football purgatory. We just exist as a football club...

Ask yourself this...
  • What would prompt Everton's existing board to sack an Everton manager?
That for me, is the crux of it.

What is the minimum expectation of the Everton manager?

Personally, I'm convinced that as long as our league status is assured, and season tickets keep coming in - an Everton manager who doesn't rock the boat will keep his job.

I'm still on the fence, though growing increasingly concerned that our misplaced loyalty to a manager with just one good domestic top flight season to his name could backfire and we lose an opportunity to achieve something with our best squad in a long time. I'd say if we finish below 8th at the end of the season, I'd say twist and look elsewhere.

Until then, I'm hopeful a couple of positive results could see us really kick on. Everton have failed to win consecutive league games for eight months. When that happens, and we find that consistency, we could really fly...

Keep the faith Blues. Two domestic cups are up for grabs and we're only 9 points from 4th... 5 from 5th.
Click to expand...
Three major points:

1/ Context: It's halfway through a season that sees us one league win away from a position that'd have most saying it was acceptable. Halfway through a season when we have one more step to a cup final. There really should be no alarm bells ringing.

2/ You cant say this side has regressed with a straight face. Leaving defensive lapses in the last month out of the equation and this team is playing the best football we've seen in a generation. There's no debate over that as far as I'm oncerned. You mention the 'sexy football' in a dismissive manner, as if it's just some bit of meaningless presentation. It's not. It's what we should be doing or trying to do as a football club. That's our goal and results will come from it. Kendall and Catterick would have endorsed that much, I know that/ You cant have one consistently without the other. The attack is amazing; the defence needs a decent GK behind it and an experienced CB. Nothing major required to set that right.

3/ You state this is the best squad in years and you ask could another manager do better with them. Well, Martinez built this squad. No new manager is guaranteed to have the vision to use them properly. Bring a new boss in and a) watch the players who came here for Martinez leave, or b ) lose their potency (especially that attacking unit). All new manager's have their own method, and that attacking four would almost inevitably be tampered with and lose their potency and/or understanding. In any case, it's taken RM two seasons to finally get the bulk of his players in and Moyes' out the door and he has to be given time and opportunity to get the best out of them.

You see stagnation. there's an argument there if you just focus on results; others see progress in the way we move and pass the ball and that with changes to the GK and the growing experience of the defenders we have we look like stepping up and taking this club to the next level.

In other words: this is entirely in the eye of the beholder at this stage.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Register
Back
Top