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"Review the manager in December..."

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Groucho said:
I have to say, that grates with me. Agree completely.

I'm still pro-Martinez, albeit only just, but constant polls about being good enough after every single game? How many hoops does the guy have to jump through? We love him to bits until he loses a game? It's essentially singing when we're winning.

We ridiculed Man U for not sticking by Moyes, and laugh at LFC for their often reactionary, err, reactions to stuff but I wish some of our (possibly younger) fans would see that they're doing exactly the thing they ridicule other clubs fans for. I'm not having a go at younger fans, it's just the sad way the world has gone, I retain hope that the majority of blues can remain level headed though.

X-factor generation from @chicoazul is spot on, in society as a whole, not just football. I'm not quite as sold on Martinez as you are Dave, but I'd stick with him presently.
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Fully agree with the stupidity of trial on a game by game basis. But rather than just deriding and ignoring the fact it has happened, the question should be asked as to why it is happening. For me I don't think it's a generation of younger fans suddenly discovering the Internet, most of Chico's Geordie FIFA beauts were raised under HKIII, Smith and Moyes but this never occurred for the latter (@davek conveniently forgetting that this site has probably only had poll feature functionality for two Everton managers tenures).

I think the answer instead lies in his second season. It was so unbelievably shockingly poor that it took a lot of the collective fan base aback. The bottom half had been unthinkable for the best part of a decade and yet there we were with our best prem squad realistically fighting relegation. Of course it begged the question 'is this man the man to take is forward?' Sadly once that is out of the box it was them up to him to answer it, every game shouldn't be taken as evidence, that is absurd, but it is wholly his fault that the question is even being asked. Had Martinez turned in a top 8 finish last season playing some decent football there's no way anyone is even questioning him two seasons into the job absolutely no way (apart from those who never wanted him). His second season changed everything though as for me it was one of the poorest mismanagement of a top squad in prem history.
 
quasi modo said:
The football going forward is better, although we are guilty of not taking chances and killing games off.

The defending is just as bad if not worse, I fear the opposition will score everytime they attack, hands over eyes stuff watching them at the moment.
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In a nutshell really.
 
There is more pressure on managers due to the sky money. come march or even sooner, the chairmen of the bottom three teams will have tough calls to make. As for Martinez if results matched the football he is trying to achieve then im sure there wouldnt be criticism. His stubborness and lack of tactical nouse may be his downfall. The greatest challenge is what happens when/if the likes of lukaku, coleman and stones leave can he replace them? can he set up a team to survive in the lower half of the league based on gung ho tactics?
 
Jonahjones said:
There is a lot of inevitable circular dicussion going on in relation to the Martinez subject.

Everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to one. I respect them all.

For me, there is one recurring theme:-

"We will be ok when he sorts the defence out."

As I have said elsewhere and to continue the circular discussion, he has been a manager in the PL for six and a half seasons and conceded an average of sixty goals per season.

How do those who say he needs to sort out the defence suggest he sorts it out?

Are Baines, Coleman, Jags, Stones (I don't feel we have seen enough of RFM to decide either way) bad defenders? If yes, than which of these should we be looking to replace?

If no, than what do you feel he can/will do that he hasn't done or tried to do already?

This is not designed to antagonise, I am genuinely interested to hear what people think can be done.
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They're all good defenders, the problem is, they've all, bar Stones, spent most/virtually all of this season on the sidelines. He sorts the defence out simply by getting them fit and getting our defence performing like it was this season in games such as Southampton, Spurs Chelsea. The defence was organised well enough earlier this season when 3/4 of the defence was fit. It mightn't have been watertight every game, but had we continued keeping a solid amount of clean sheets during recent times when we've been conceding 2/3 a game and barely keeping any clean sheets, we'd have picked up a much larger number of points.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Fully agree with the stupidity of trial on a game by game basis. But rather than just deriding and ignoring the fact it has happened, the question should be asked as to why it is happening. For me I don't think it's a generation of younger fans suddenly discovering the Internet, most of Chico's Geordie FIFA beauts were raised under HKIII, Smith and Moyes but this never occurred for the latter (@davek conveniently forgetting that this site has probably only had poll feature functionality for two Everton managers tenures).
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Have to say I think this is a great point. How can it really be a sense of entitlement for Everton fans under the age of 30 when they maximum they've seen is one trophy?

I think what is actually happening here is that the younger fans are not loaded down with sentiment like 'wasn't it great when we could sit with Kopites at Derbies' crowd whose misty eyed misadventure is clouding them against the stark reality of the Martinez catastrophe.

There'll be a strong correlation between those voting 'Martinez IN' and those that snidely voted Conservative last election. Both saying something publicly but in the quiet confines of their WhatsApp / hearts of darkness, they'll know where they truly stand.
 
paulbefc said:
They're all good defenders, the problem is, they've all, bar Stones, spent most/virtually all of this season on the sidelines. He sorts the defence out simply by getting them fit and getting our defence performing like it was this season in games such as Southampton, Spurs Chelsea. The defence was organised well enough earlier this season when 3/4 of the defence was fit. It mightn't have been watertight every game, but had we continued keeping a solid amount of clean sheets during recent times when we've been conceding 2/3 a game and barely keeping any clean sheets, we'd have picked up a much larger number of points.
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Injuries are part of the game.

Also - last season?
 
chicoazul said:
We're not two years on from the team that finished fifth with our highest Premier League points total. We're a year and half on, and there's still half a season to go.

Which is why we're laughing at all the young lids like you having an utter paddy because Everton won't let you enjoy your weekend.

I ran a highly scientific and fair poll at Christmas and less than 30% wanted him out, so the angry plotters have no mandate to keep bawling their eyes out like upset children at every adverse result.

Everton yourself up you quilt, and just admit you can't stand Latinos.
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Tell you what friend do another poll, two calls only.

Are you happy with RM

Are you unhappy with RM.
 

Woolly Blue said:
We're playing some cracking football which is a massive step up from last season.

If the choice was just between mid-table playing great football or grinding out results then it's a no brainer, lets be entertained.

But we're aiming higher than mid table, which means we need to sort out the problems at the back.

Martinez is going nowhere in the short term so, at a mimimum he's got half a season to show some improvement in defence. It won't take a lot of improvement to convince me he's worth sticking with, but it does need to improve.
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It's entirely possible that Martinez is only making minor changes to his system and getting large swings in results and may be close to the final tweak to make it all work.

But my optimism wanes.
 
njligernj said:
I think Martinez is a mega club manager and needs a mega club budget. Now before people get internet mad at me I'm not saying I think he's that good. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. I have no idea.

What I'm saying is his best fit -- the job in which you'll see peak Martinez (whatever that represents) -- is a job in which he can get all the pieces he needs so you can see his vision realized. He doesn't compromise; a trait which can be good but can also be very bad. Maybe he doesn't need City money but I think he needs at least RS or Spurs money.

Martinez wants to build a Ferrari and has no interest in driving a Lexus or a BMW for a few years while he builds the Ferrari on the side. It's all Ferrari all the time.

Moyes is a great example of the inverse: a manager for whom restricted budgets bring out "peak Moyes" and the big club scenario isn't his forte.

Moyes will mod a Honda so much that it looks exactly like a Mercedes ... to the point you don't remember it's a Honda until the race starts and you're like "oh right I remember now we have a Honda and we are going to lose horribly." Moyes would even get billionaires to buy our Hondas because they genuinely thought they were luxury sports cars. It was also his weakness: when he finally got a Lexus or BMW (or eventually actual Ferraris) in his garage Moyes would treat them all like a Civic.

IF we get new owners what kind of spend levels can we expect? That to me would influence the decision on the manager.

Martinez has a very obvious strategy with his public comments which makes judging him on anything but results difficult (and results aren't great of late ... "of late" being the last 18 months).

If I'm the new owners I want to sit down and have a real conversation with Martinez.

I want to hear him say negative stuff about our players! To acknowledge the defence is a shambles and he needs help.

I want to hear him say "I wanted to bring in Andros Pistamooli from Napoli to coach defence but we didn't have the budget" and "I wanted to bring in Greatzi Defendereeno from Roma to solidify our backline and Monty Stopsalot from Fenerbache in nets" so I can be all "well now you can afford them!"

If the conversation I have with him is along those lines then he gets a vote of confidence and stays.

If it's all just the same bollocks from press conferences (or most likely a toned down version but along the same refusing to admit problem area lines) and we don't win the Cup (or recover and finish top 5) then I'd likely look elsewhere.

The ambition of the new owners is a factor too. While I don't see them spending to Chelsea/City/United levels if they have even a RS level budget then it's possible they'd have stars in their eyes about one of the big name managers out there?

The bizarre and achingly ironic truth is that the best possible manager for the current Everton football club is possibly 75% Martinez and 25% Moyes.

No way I'd make a change before the end of the season though. He should get three years.
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Then happen he should resign and apply for the Chelsea job or Bayern when Pep leaves. Because from what you infer we are not a big enough club for him.
 

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