Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I said last season that I'd give him until the back end of 2015. We're now in March 2016 and the cup runs are the only thing that's kept him in a job imo.

Our league position is completely unacceptable, and our home form is a complete embarrassment.

I don't see any progress where it matters i.e. results & it's a results business - simple as.

He'll have had 3 years come May, and the last 2 seasons we've gone backwards. I therefore don't think he's earned the right to a 4th season at our great club.

If he got another season could anyone seriously ever see this man turning us into a side that won games and were hard to beat on a consistent basis? His lack of focus on the defensive side of the game will never see us being able to grind out results when we're having an off day - like all the top sides have the ability to do. If we have an off day we get beaten under Martinez, and very often even when we have a good day as well ffs.

I don't want to see him fired now, but at the end of the season when he sits down to have his performance reviewed, they should hand him his cards.

Adios Bobby.

 

[maccavennie]

If he gets sacked sooner rather than later @davek who would you choose as manager?

Hypothetical question I know, though I think he will be gone end of the season but I'm sure you've thought about your worst case scenario and he gets the hook, who would you have in to replace him.

 

[bluestevon]

If he was the manager of the rs and he'd had the same set of results and same soundbites coming out of his mouth we would be absolutely pissing ourselves about him, in many ways that sums up the level he is at - sorry but after the first season i thought we had struck gold with him honetsly did, but nearly two full seasons of embarressing results and collapses has knocked any belief i had in him well out of me by now.

If w ehave any ambition left as a club then that needs to start with the manager - he isn't good enough, and he is far from the nothing but the best is good enough ideal.

Like a boxer who can talk a good fight but has a glass jaw - Martinez is fatally and fundamentally flawed

Try tog et Mourinho in - so what if he bails after 3 seasons - we will improve a lot in those three years, everything that is to come after the takeover - new ground, new commercial deals, the rebradnding of the club etc will be three years further along, we'd benefit from the profile the manager would bring during that time, and chances are from his past record we will have won soemthing during that tenure, leaving us in a position much stronger to then go try get a long term manager who is up to the job, and who knows maybe Mourinho would be touched by the club and make this his legacy as a manager.

Has to be worth thinking about, as Martinez when you strip away the nice guy he obviously is, the fact he gets the club - at least on surface value and the fact he has some great ideas, well he just isn't up to the job of managing us to be the club he dreams us to be

 

[bignev23]

It's a shame we're back here again, it really is a concern that we are as we were on a decent bit of form overall but it's the home form and the manner in which we lose that is most worrying, I think he'll be given one last season after this and if it's not a good one then he deserves to go, all the ingredients are there for us to be a decent little side, including none of our opponents are actually anything special, yet we sit here in 12th place with an Fa cup tie against Chelsea to save our season so I can see why some want him gone already. I'm sticking with him for now though at least, God knows why.

 

[Azza]

I said last season that I'd give him until the back end of 2015. We're now in March 2016 and the cup runs are the only thing that's kept him in a job imo.

Our league position is completely unacceptable, and our home form is a complete embarrassment.

I don't see any progress where it matters i.e. results & it's a results business - simple as.

He'll have had 3 years come May, and the last 2 seasons we've gone backwards. I therefore don't think he's earned the right to a 4th season at our great club.

If he got another season could anyone seriously ever see this man turning us into a side that won games and were hard to beat on a consistent basis? His lack of focus on the defensive side of the game will never see us being able to grind out results when we're having an off day - like all the top sides have the ability to do. If we have an off day we get beaten under Martinez, and very often even when we have a good day as well ffs.

I don't want to see him fired now, but at the end of the season when he sits down to have his performance reviewed, they should hand him his cards.

Adios Bobby.

Rather sooner than later, would give a new manager time to assess the squad over a few games remaining and then the whole pre-season to build his Dutch masterpiece.

 

[davek]

If he gets sacked sooner rather than later @davek who would you choose as manager?

Hypothetical question I know, though I think he will be gone end of the season but I'm sure you've thought about your worst case scenario and he gets the hook, who would you have in to replace him.

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

 

[maccavennie]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

Good post mate, do you have anyone in mind then in your opinion who could continue the work Bobby has done ( but add some defensive steel to proceedings ) it do you think it's Martinez or no one.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

What do you reckon on De Boer or Emery?

A lot depends on the new owner and how serious he is for investment. I see little point in changing "like for like" but I do wonder if someone like De Boer could be our Pochetino.

Unless this season collapses I can't see him going but there will rightly be some serious questions. I think we are playing quite well though. Yesterday was utter stupidity from Martinez but we can't lose site of the fact we would have won that game had we had 11. I can see us picking up 20+ points which I imagine would see us in the top 8.

 

[bluewally]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

Dave there is no significant change week in week out. The Martinez in numbers remain the same. The out numbers slowly and steadily increase as this man drags our club through new levels of mediocrity.

On the new manager front. Why wouldn't they be a top draw?

One week you are going on about how all clubs are equal now because the tv money makes everyone rich. We already have the most exciting young squad in football. Now we also have a billionaire investor behind us. Yet you still think we can't do better than chief scout Bobby martins. Dream on. There will be a queue out the door

And even if it is a bright young manager at least it won't be one who's star has now conclusively faded for all rational people

 

[Ashtonian]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

Liverpool got Klopp to go to them by paying him enough money mate. Plenty of managers available who could do a better job than Martinez if we pay them a little more.

Not too long ago, Bilic was banded about as a replacement....he is touching distance of 3rd in the league with west bloody ham.

Hughes for 2 years has out performed Martinez, and even matched his record blow for blow.

Koeman sold half the squad and out performs martinez for 2 years despite martinez actually not selling his team.

Games swing against us in 2 weeks, two teams who weren't even in the division 12 months ago could be over us.

Genuine question here mate, if Roberto had not won the F.A cup with wigan, would you still strongly support him? None of this well he did win it nonsense, what if he took wigan down, no fan fare or anything, no cups, just took them down playing nice football with a poor defence, before he arrived here. Would you strongly back him still despite the team playing exactly the same way and almost ending up with the same results?

 

[Khalekan]

Was anyone else more upset with the Lukaku substitution on Saturday than the Lennon one?

I could forgive the Lennon one as he may have been tired. We needed some sorted of outlet playing with 10 men though, so when Lukaku went off I thought who would hold the ball up ?

Madness. I'm a Martinez out-er after that

Not me.

By the time Rom went off the damage was done.....they had pulled it back to 2-2.

The third goal didn't really matter as even a draw would have felt like a defeat.

No, the first substitution was the game changer......Barry should have been on for Lennon, if indeed Lennon needed substituting, not Omar.

That is the only one which is upsetting me.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

The problem is if Martinez walks/sacked after the next couple of games, who realistically is available now to replace him?

You can mention money, but which manager is going to leave, or be allowed to leave their club so close to the end of the season.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

Ok. The bits in bold are plus points of Martinez time in charge.

The stuff about the league and cups.

2014-15
FAC 3rd round
LC 3rd round
League Finish 11th

2013-14
LC 3rd round
FAC QF.
League Finish 5th

We have progressed in the cups, won nothing yet, however we have declined in the league. Does this point to Martinez being a cup manager? Plus, its this season he had got us to the latter stages (besides the QF in 2013 - but that season in whole looks more like a fluke at the moment). Moyes done that - did you give him any plaudits for that i know you weren't a fan.

Playing good football is all well and good, but without winning games and winning trophies it doesn't mean anything. You do forget to point out the negatives about Martinez - presuming you are able to see some. If you lashed a bit of balance in your posts you might get more traction with people.

 

[bluestevon]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

Three years ago Rodgers finsihed 2nd and almost won the league - he was sacked for underperforming the this season after another season he finished a mile ahead of Martinez at Everton and whilst currently ahead of us at the time he was sacked.

Three years ago Pelligrini won the League with City, at the end of this season his contract is being terminated with a year left on it by the City board to appoint a better manager as he has underperformed.

In his first seaosn as Spurs manager AVB finished with the same points as Martinez did and came much closer to a top3-4 finish, the next season he was sacked for udnerperformign with hsi team doing better at the time than Martinez currently is

This season almost certainly someone will ge ttop 4 Dave with less than 70 points, i am so sure that they will be looking at Martinez and his 72 points first season with Everton with so much jealousy and envy, or maybe no one besides you cares what happened three years ago as ultimately it got us absolutely nowhere and is really just a curious oddity of a stat when we look back on it.

so no mnager in the world you can think of would have been able to finish 5th, 11th and likely 12th or lwoer with this team whilst managing to not win any cup either. Really Dave?

You bang on about the latter stages of cup competitions ad nauseum lately, honestly mate who gives a flying [Poor language removed] about if the cup when you don't win it, Moyes got absolutely embaressed in the QF by Wigan and sorry but are we supposed to remember that as a good thing as we got the latter stages of the FA Cup? We supposed to remember the SF against the rs with glowing fondness and ;laud Moyes for the job he did? Cup final against Chelsea - one of the best days in Evertons history wa sit - we reached the end of a cup competiiton - yeah we won f all but lets clap along for getting close.

Utter bobbins mate, unless you win the cup then you have failed and trying to spin it around as a triumph shows how desperate your getting, should we honsetly laud the City away capitulation? another example of throwing away a game with a brain dead sub btw?

You think Moshiri will accpet 12th place finishes and excuses your going to be in for a shock mate, you don't become that succesful by employing bullshit merchants who cant produce what they promise

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Well, first of all, he WONT be gone. You can almost guarantee that. It's the usual post match collapse fume that we've seen all season on forums when a defeat or draw of that nature has occurred and no one outside these forums are expecting anything of the sort.

On a hypothetical replacement: they wouldn't be top draw. They'd be of the middling variety of bright young managers. Then you have to ask how much that significantly changes us for the better. Will they come in and get us 70 odd points as Martinez has? Will they get us to the latter stages of cup competitions? Will they have us playing decent football we can be proud of? Will they use money wisely and buy and nurture great young talent?

If you think there is such a person I'd like to hear it. I cant think of one who could do what Martinez has done here in three seasons on that range of progression...something that would be acutely felt if ever the board were stupid enough to part company with him, which they wont be.

Martinez isn't top drawer either, he's a middle of the road limited manager, who has consistently failed to deliver results over the course of 2 seasons now.

There's a whole raft of managers who could have done a better job with the squad we have now imo.

As for the highlighted sentence, the fact that you used the words 'usual' followed by 'collapse' sums it up perfectly.......