Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[squonk]

Mate, people want a defensive minded dullard manager and to eke out a 1-0 win against the Stokes and West Ham's of this world. Who am I to suggest a replacement who can do what Martinez has done across the range of targets I mentioned?

I'll hazard a guess who Everton could possibly get and fall in the range of acceptability of the dissidents on this forum - if that's any good to you?

He'd be English, a manager who tells his players to 'get it in the mixer lad', he'd go parking the bus away from home - and at home once we scored (if we scored) - he'd scowl and scream at players and throw them under the bus when he alone is to blame for a defeat.

Who might that identikit boss be? Maybe a young Alardyce or a Sherwood...yes, Sherwood would be worshipped by some on here. A big blustering nobhead.

they do, do they ? I must have overlooked all those posts. or maybe they want a manager who can strike a balance between a combination of a solid and resilient defence and good attacking flair.

 

[davek]

Liverpool got Klopp to go to them by paying him enough money mate. Plenty of managers available who could do a better job than Martinez if we pay them a little more.

Not too long ago, Bilic was banded about as a replacement....he is touching distance of 3rd in the league with west bloody ham.

Hughes for 2 years has out performed Martinez, and even matched his record blow for blow.

Koeman sold half the squad and out performs martinez for 2 years despite martinez actually not selling his team.

Games swing against us in 2 weeks, two teams who weren't even in the division 12 months ago could be over us.

Genuine question here mate, if Roberto had not won the F.A cup with wigan, would you still strongly support him? None of this well he did win it nonsense, what if he took wigan down, no fan fare or anything, no cups, just took them down playing nice football with a poor defence, before he arrived here. Would you strongly back him still despite the team playing exactly the same way and almost ending up with the same results?

As much as it pains me to say it, Liverpool have a status in the game based on their past endeavours that we don't (in Europe) and they are still a draw for managers who KNOW they'll be given hundreds of millions to spend.

If you want Martinez out, you'll get a Eddie Howe replacement or similar.

Best of luck with that.

 

[davek]

Ok. The bits in bold are plus points of Martinez time in charge.

The stuff about the league and cups.

2014-15
FAC 3rd round
LC 3rd round
League Finish 11th

2013-14
LC 3rd round
FAC QF.
League Finish 5th

We have progressed in the cups, won nothing yet, however we have declined in the league. Does this point to Martinez being a cup manager? Plus, its this season he had got us to the latter stages (besides the QF in 2013 - but that season in whole looks more like a fluke at the moment). Moyes done that - did you give him any plaudits for that i know you weren't a fan.

Playing good football is all well and good, but without winning games and winning trophies it doesn't mean anything. You do forget to point out the negatives about Martinez - presuming you are able to see some. If you lashed a bit of balance in your posts you might get more traction with people.

Simple reply: 5th and 11th are all the same: hopeless. Points total of the 5th place season interests me only: enough t get a CL spot.

You want PL improvement to CL points heights? Go and get Ancelotti in...and he'd need Mourinho as his assistant to do what Martinez did in getting 72 points with our budget.

 

[davek]

Martinez isn't top drawer either, he's a middle of the road limited manager, who has consistently failed to deliver results over the course of 2 seasons now.

There's a whole raft of managers who could have done a better job with the squad we have now imo.

As for the highlighted sentence, the fact that you used the words 'usual' followed by 'collapse' sums it up perfectly.......

Name them.

 

[Thomasc]

Hi, first post, here goes.

1. You could analyse each game and give different excuses for each defeat, which as a long time forum reader the Martinez backers seem to do each week. The problem is though we are now nearly 2 full seasons of being a bottom half of the table side, so at some point you need to address why that is. Is he just unlucky? Is he actually sending the players out to play a system that doesn't suit them? Either way we have an a serious problem.

2. No Evertonian in their right mind should be accepting the current home form and defeats to West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke, Sunderland (last May) are very alarming. I can forgive the Leicester defeat as they are beating everybody and a million miles away from being a pub side as somebody wrote on here. At first he wanted to blame the crowd, now he's blaming the referee, both signs of a desparate man who needs to blame everybody but himself.

3. If we lose to Chelsea, I see no point in pursuing with him. The season will be over barring an out of character run of form, which we are capable of, but only I think if some fresh ideas are brought in and the current regime given their p45s.

4. I think anybody still backing him are people who like me, who wanted him to do well, but won't now admit they backed the wrong horse. They need to man up and admit it, embrace we need a change and be happy to get somebody in who can get results and get the best out of the talented group of players that we have.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Mate, people want a defensive minded dullard manager and to eke out a 1-0 win against the Stokes and West Ham's of this world. Who am I to suggest a replacement who can do what Martinez has done across the range of targets I mentioned?

I'll hazard a guess who Everton could possibly get and fall in the range of acceptability of the dissidents on this forum - if that's any good to you?

He'd be English, a manager who tells his players to 'get it in the mixer lad', he'd go parking the bus away from home - and at home once we scored (if we scored) - he'd scowl and scream at players and throw them under the bus when he alone is to blame for a defeat.

Who might that identikit boss be? Maybe a young Alardyce or a Sherwood...yes, Sherwood would be worshipped by some on here. A big blustering nobhead.

hahaha, and of course there's nothing in between the soft underbelly, goal sieving, defensively awful Martinez offering and route 1, anti football, Pulis style durge?

Way to try and polarize the debate mate....

Football is a results business, Martinez has been failing to deliver results.....if there wasn't unrest and pressure on him, there'd be something drastically wrong at the club.

People are rightly questioning his tenure as we're sat 12th in the PL, and have lost 5 of our last 7 at home. It's piss poor and not good enough for EFC.

The simple facts are that he needs to improve the results - pronto. Drop the phenomenal guff, and get on with delivering some points.

 

[willo30]

Name them.

Go on then. I'll bite.

MOYES.

 

[Thomasc]

Simple reply: 5th and 11th are all the same: hopeless. Points total of the 5th place season interests me only: enough t get a CL spot.

You want PL improvement to CL points heights? Go and get Ancelotti in...and he'd need Mourinho as his assistant to do what Martinez did in getting 72 points with our budget.

What has him getting 72 points 2 seasons ago got to do with our current plight? What is the point in even bringing it up?

Let's not live on all our yesteryears! Crikey, we laugh at the neighbours for that.

 

[Ashtonian]

As much as it pains me to say it, Liverpool have a status in the game based on their past endeavours that we don't (in Europe) and they are still a draw for managers who KNOW they'll be given hundreds of millions to spend.

If you want Martinez out, you'll get a Eddie Howe replacement or similar.

Best of luck with that.

best of luck? Next league games Howe could have taken a team who were in the championship 12 months ago above us. And he would kill to have any one of our first team players in his.

Status or not, liverpool got klopp by paying him enough to convince him to go there. For a manager who could have gone to your chelsea's or uniteds or whoever else, to end up at a crap mid table club took paying a bit more than the competition, their previous managers were rodgers dagliesh and hodgson, hardly high calibre managers there.

The fact is mate, anyone suggesting bilic on here 12 months ago would have been shot down (and i'm sure there is proof in the vaults) and yet 12 months later here is bilic threatening to knock a team out of the top 4, with only 10 to play? so hardly an early season run. Again i am sure Bilic would take most of our first 11 into his team if you gave him the option to. So there is plenty of better managers out there, even Moyes would get more from this team.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Simple reply: 5th and 11th are all the same: hopeless. Points total of the 5th place season interests me only: enough t get a CL spot.

You want PL improvement to CL points heights? Go and get Ancelotti in...and he'd need Mourinho as his assistant to do what Martinez did in getting 72 points with our budget.

Well if we talk about points, then the league performance is severely lacking it should have got us a CL spot, for the fact it was a freak season for points - the fact we haven't replicated this tally says my point.

As for that last point, don't believe that for a second.

 

[davek]

Three years ago Rodgers finsihed 2nd and almost won the league - he was sacked for underperforming the this season after another season he finished a mile ahead of Martinez at Everton and whilst currently ahead of us at the time he was sacked.

Three years ago Pelligrini won the League with City, at the end of this season his contract is being terminated with a year left on it by the City board to appoint a better manager as he has underperformed.

In his first seaosn as Spurs manager AVB finished with the same points as Martinez did and came much closer to a top3-4 finish, the next season he was sacked for udnerperformign with hsi team doing better at the time than Martinez currently is

This season almost certainly someone will ge ttop 4 Dave with less than 70 points, i am so sure that they will be looking at Martinez and his 72 points first season with Everton with so much jealousy and envy, or maybe no one besides you cares what happened three years ago as ultimately it got us absolutely nowhere and is really just a curious oddity of a stat when we look back on it.

so no mnager in the world you can think of would have been able to finish 5th, 11th and likely 12th or lwoer with this team whilst managing to not win any cup either. Really Dave?

You bang on about the latter stages of cup competitions ad nauseum lately, honestly mate who gives a flying [Poor language removed] about if the cup when you don't win it, Moyes got absolutely embaressed in the QF by Wigan and sorry but are we supposed to remember that as a good thing as we got the latter stages of the FA Cup? We supposed to remember the SF against the rs with glowing fondness and ;laud Moyes for the job he did? Cup final against Chelsea - one of the best days in Evertons history wa sit - we reached the end of a cup competiiton - yeah we won f all but lets clap along for getting close.

Utter bobbins mate, unless you win the cup then you have failed and trying to spin it around as a triumph shows how desperate your getting, should we honsetly laud the City away capitulation? another example of throwing away a game with a brain dead sub btw?

You think Moshiri will accpet 12th place finishes and excuses your going to be in for a shock mate, you don't become that succesful by employing bullshit merchants who cant produce what they promise

Rodgers, Pellegrini, AVB - you do realise how much those fellers spent don't you?

Moshiri: I think he's going to judge on pounds spent and the return in terms of results and value of the squad. Anyone in business would. In that sense he's going to see that things have been ticking over nicely overall.

Honest to God mate, I know you're a grown man and don't need another poster giving you advice, but you're a clever lad. Just ride out the forum fever and think about this. If you do you'll see that across the board Martinez has this club's PL record points, has us playing the best we've played in years with the ball, has built a squad with fantastic potential....that's what the owners see by the way. Jump off the bandwagon while it's still moving slowly enough.

 

[bluewally]

Mate, people want a defensive minded dullard manager and to eke out a 1-0 win against the Stokes and West Ham's of this world. Who am I to suggest a replacement who can do what Martinez has done across the range of targets I mentioned?

I'll hazard a guess who Everton could possibly get and fall in the range of acceptability of the dissidents on this forum - if that's any good to you?

He'd be English, a manager who tells his players to 'get it in the mixer lad', he'd go parking the bus away from home - and at home once we scored (if we scored) - he'd scowl and scream at players and throw them under the bus when he alone is to blame for a defeat.

Who might that identikit boss be? Maybe a young Alardyce or a Sherwood...yes, Sherwood would be worshipped by some on here. A big blustering nobhead.

you are taking the arguments against Martinez to the opposite extreme. Nobody has said that.

What I and I assume most people want is a manager who can bring a better balance to the team.

Yes Martinez football is exciting going forward but we ship far too many goals and there are no indications that he has the ability to change that.

It's a shame. I liked him. Was delighted with the first season like yourself but it's looking more and more like a blip. Fair enough you've nailed your colours to the mast on this particular topic and I respect your dedication.

Please show myself and other posters some respect to by not suggesting we want Allardyce/Pulis style as the only alternative to Martinez style

you know enough about football to know there's a middle ground.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Name them.

What all of them?

I'll be here some time.

What do you want managers who we might be able to attract? or those who simply would have done better with the squad we have at the club at present?

Come off it Dave, he's flopped this season, same as he flopped last season, barring the oil clubs and United, virtually every manager in the division would have given their eye teeth for the squad he's had at his disposal this season, and he's delivered the square root of jack with it in the league. He's therefore failed in his prime objective.

 

[squonk]

I think anybody still backing him are people who like me, who wanted him to do well, but won't now admit they backed the wrong horse. They need to man up and admit it, embrace we need a change and be happy to get somebody in who can get results and get the best out of the talented group of players that we have.

unfortunately a few on here have dug a crater for themselves and got buried in it.

 

[davek]

they do, do they ? I must have overlooked all those posts. or maybe they want a manager who can strike a balance between a combination of a solid and resilient defence and good attacking flair.

Such as....?