Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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davek said:
...no names yet?
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Crikey, are you seriously suggesting there are no managers out there who could get this squad producing better results?

Is the league table something you just don't even look at?

You come across as somebody who is happy for Everton to be a lower league side and just be there to make up the numbers in the PL.

Perhaps others want a bit more from the club and team they support. Is that so bad?
 
davek said:
Moshiri: I think he's going to judge on pounds spent and the return in terms of results and value of the squad. Anyone in business would. In that sense he's going to see that things have been ticking over nicely overall.
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So Dave, Moshiri, the businessman wold he look at points per pounds spent on the squad? As a results value, not actual points in the league?
 
The Esk said:
Squad
Preseason preparation
Manager's contribution to individual player development
Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Selection
Team tactics and team shape
Team presence and cohesion
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game
Click to expand...

At the end of last season I wrote a front page article looking at the above in the context of Martinez' managerial contribution and results but not in any order. It was fair to say he scored well on squad improvements and individual player development. However the rest had question marks to one degree or another.

If I listed them in terms of effectiveness and degree of improvement (other than pre season preparation) from top (best) to bottom (worst) I think it would look like this currently:

Good or acceptable:

Squad Improvement
Managers contribution to individual player development

Questionable:

Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Selection

Poor or unacceptable

Team presence and cohesion
Team tactics and team shape
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game

So arguably very little has changed, he has done well in the areas he does well in, and done poorly where he does poorly. This leads to me to my view that as he is unlikely to be fired, he needs additional support brought in in order to strengthen his weakness as a man manager and as a tactician.
 
The Esk said:
At the end of last season I wrote a front page article looking at the above in the context of Martinez' managerial contribution and results but not in any order. It was fair to say he scored well on squad improvements and individual player development. However the rest had question marks to one degree or another.

If I listed them in terms of effectiveness and degree of improvement (other than pre season preparation) from top (best) to bottom (worst) I think it would look like this currently:

Good or acceptable:

Squad Improvement
Managers contribution to individual player development

Questionable:

Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Selection

Poor or unacceptable

Team presence and cohesion
Team tactics and team shape
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game

So arguably very little has changed, he has done well in the areas he does well in, and done poorly where he does poorly. This leads to me to my view that as he is unlikely to be fired, he needs additional support brought in in order to strengthen his weakness as a man manager and as a tactician.
Click to expand...


He needs booting upstairs so he can deal with PR, Player recruitment, Player development and all the other things he is good at. First team manager is not one of them...
 

'Roberto has a dream...' one which is quickly turning into a nightmare for the fans.

When I hark back to the mid-80's (yeah, I know) we had a team of players who never knew when they were beaten and even if they went behind in a game we always just knew we would pull the deficit back and go on to win. Now we have a team made up of players every bit as skilful (if not more so) than the 80's squad but who seem wholly devoid of any confidence in their ability to maintain leads. We have seen on a number of occasions this season how capable they are at coming back from losing positions and actually go on to win games so how is it they appear to implode mentally when ahead in seemingly unassailable positions? I really think the players have bought too much into the Mr Nice Guy image of Martinez and with his never ending public excuses and 'reasons' for their failures on the pitch - as well as his own lack of judgement - we have replaced Spurs as the team with the proverbial soft underbelly. What for a leader like Terry (as much as I dislike him) or a fit-again Vincent Kompany (who I do like).
 
The Esk said:
At the end of last season I wrote a front page article looking at the above in the context of Martinez' managerial contribution and results but not in any order. It was fair to say he scored well on squad improvements and individual player development. However the rest had question marks to one degree or another.

If I listed them in terms of effectiveness and degree of improvement (other than pre season preparation) from top (best) to bottom (worst) I think it would look like this currently:

Good or acceptable:

Squad Improvement
Managers contribution to individual player development

Questionable:

Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Selection

Poor or unacceptable

Team presence and cohesion
Team tactics and team shape
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game

So arguably very little has changed, he has done well in the areas he does well in, and done poorly where he does poorly. This leads to me to my view that as he is unlikely to be fired, he needs additional support brought in in order to strengthen his weakness as a man manager and as a tactician.
Click to expand...

You would think though Esk that there's already some very strong characters around FF who must be able to offer him advice, I'm thinking the likes of Royle, Sheedy, Unsworth and he has Ferguson as one of his coaches. Thats a large blend of experience and expertise within certain fields right there but Martinez has shown no sign of learning.

I've coached kids aged from 5 years through to 13 years and when I watch Everton bomb forward it just reminds me of coaching kids, they all want to score,they don't want to defend and they certainly don't want to listen to me talking about shape,balance and discipline lol It's all very well when it's just kids playing for fun but these are supposedly top professional footballers under the guidance of a top manager. I just don't see how it when any improvement will come from him.

@Eggs mentioned it yesterday, simply 2 banks of 4 and shut up shop with 15 minutes to go and we win that game Saturday probably 2-1 or 3-1.

He's got huge flaws, the kind that are easily fixed but for whatever reason he is unwilling to fix them and it will cost him his job imo
 
in an ideal world we would have moyes and martinez working together in perfect harmony
a bit like .... `sven and ulrika` ...
 
We had 10 men, were tiring, were always going to struggle against balls thrown in and even more so with the changes they made, so he goes to a 4-3-2. Ridiculous decision tbh. Narrowed the field far too much and allowed them the space on the wings, exactly were we didn't want to concede it. We were coping through the middle, but as soon as it went left or right, we looked panicked, more so in the final 15 minutes.

Lennon looked dead on his feet, and he had every right to, the wrong substitution was made. My sub would've been to push Oviedo into the left hand side of the middle four, Baines at LB (or even other way round) leave Besic to look after the right and Barry on in the middle for Lennon. Then, if needs be put on Niasse for Lukaku as an outlet.

Have to give him credit for the HT change though, exactly what was needed.
 

The Esk said:
At the end of last season I wrote a front page article looking at the above in the context of Martinez' managerial contribution and results but not in any order. It was fair to say he scored well on squad improvements and individual player development. However the rest had question marks to one degree or another.

If I listed them in terms of effectiveness and degree of improvement (other than pre season preparation) from top (best) to bottom (worst) I think it would look like this currently:

Good or acceptable:

Squad Improvement
Managers contribution to individual player development

Questionable:

Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Selection

Poor or unacceptable

Team presence and cohesion
Team tactics and team shape
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game

So arguably very little has changed, he has done well in the areas he does well in, and done poorly where he does poorly. This leads to me to my view that as he is unlikely to be fired, he needs additional support brought in in order to strengthen his weakness as a man manager and as a tactician.
Click to expand...

Hard to argue with this even though I'm still a Martinez fan, also agree that he needs to bring people in to help with his weakness's, the problem there though, Martinez probably doesn't see the weakness's in himself that we do, this could end up being his downfall.

The other thing is, normally after we've thrown a game away like Saturday, I'll have a fume to myself, and then I'll calm down after a few hours, I'm still fuming now, probably says a lot.
 
maccavennie said:
You would think though Esk that there's already some very strong characters around FF who must be able to offer him advice, I'm thinking the likes of Royle, Sheedy, Unsworth and he has Ferguson as one of his coaches. Thats a large blend of experience and expertise within certain fields right there but Martinez has shown no sign of learning.

I've coached kids aged from 5 years through to 13 years and when I watch Everton bomb forward it just reminds me of coaching kids, they all want to score,they don't want to defend and they certainly don't want to listen to me talking about shape,balance and discipline lol It's all very well when it's just kids playing for fun but these are supposedly top professional footballers under the guidance of a top manager. I just don't see how it when any improvement will come from him.

@Eggs mentioned it yesterday, simply 2 banks of 4 and shut up shop with 15 minutes to go and we win that game Saturday probably 2-1 or 3-1.

He's got huge flaws, the kind that are easily fixed but for whatever reason he is unwilling to fix them and it will cost him his job imo
Click to expand...

its almost as if he's plotting his own downfall
 
davek said:
Ironically mate, De Boer is accused by his many critics for playing the ball around to exhaustion looking for openings.

I refuse to put a name forward on my own behalf, because a) it's not happening, and b ) there is no one out there who is best suited to us and our needs.
Click to expand...

He is yes which is partly why I think he'd be a nice fit, he'd certainly play football the way we want it to be played. I just wonder if he would be more adept at producing winning football.

That is the big question for Martinez now. I think he's shown everywhere he has been that he can produce excellent football, but it lacks consistency.
 
maccavennie said:
You would think though Esk that there's already some very strong characters around FF who must be able to offer him advice, I'm thinking the likes of Royle, Sheedy, Unsworth and he has Ferguson as one of his coaches. Thats a large blend of experience and expertise within certain fields right there but Martinez has shown no sign of learning.
Click to expand...

Agree, there is plenty of strong characters at the club, I just get the feeling Martinez is quite pig headed, and will always think his way is the right way, no matter what advice he is given, or who gives it.
 

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