Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Barkley has improved under Martinez

Barkley has improved under Martinez, no doubting that.

One thing that has deteriorated though under Martinez, is Barkley's fitness level (he looks like he should be carrying an inhaler around on the pitch) and the amount of extra weight he looks like he has put on.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Even Blackburn can announce their manager will be leaving at the end of the season

Let's grab him! Who is it?

 

[Harryflashman]

Or maybe its because their fans are always behind their team?

To cultish levels but still... there is a reason why they keep scraping results out in epic encounters with last minute goals and why we always seem to falter at the final hurdle. There is a winning culture at Liverpool. There hasnt been a winning culture at Everton for years.

I'm sad to say I agree with you on this , when they scored that goal against Dortmund a fair proportion of our fans would have been in either the oak or the brick . They believe , whether what's come from their success in the past or its helped create success I've no idea but their fans and their mindset (cultish or otherwise ) have contributed .

 

[coollino]

Here's to a great 3 seasons.

 

[TheFinnFan]

This actually drains joy out of every possible win this remaining season.

Gutless from the club.

 

[catcherintherye]

What was the season is which we had no manager and no club sponsor by July? I might be getting muddled in middle age but I remember listening to BBC R5L at home and they were doing a live interview with Paul Gregg outside GP and he was annoyed to say the least. I'm not posting this as a justification of his tenure on the board, no way, but what I can clearly remember from that day is a comment he made in the same interview. Roughly, it was "we have to set targets at Everton and hold people accountable to them".

What I'm getting now is drift, indecisiveness, and above all, a lack of leadership. It is this scenario where on the one hand Martinez is all but sacked and still the drama plays out. Why do have have to take an age to do everything? From a sacking to signing players. There always seems to be a hitch, a difficulty of some sort.

What I've seen on the pitch this season is a disgrace. @catcherintherye you make an excellent point about Stones, there has been a complete lack of discipline and maintenance of standards at the club overseen by Martinez. The performances let alone the results reek of a group of sulky teenagers rebelling against an out-of-touch, head-in-the clouds manager.

Thanks mate, sorry I went a bit OTT on your post and off topic.

You are right though. I was a teacher for a few years and in some ways it had similarities to being a manager. You had to keep control of people, develop them, build their confidence but most importantly maintain a position of authority.

Stones was messing about in January. Playing for himself, taking undue and silly risks and jeopardising the team for his own ends. That was a test to Martinez's authority where the whole squad including Stones would have been watching to see what he did. He should have hung him out to dry, both publicly and privately after that. This wasn't a young player struggling for form, or playing through injury, or having a bad game trying their best, but one who was deliberately undermining the team ethic. Not only did he not criticise him publically but he actually praised him and tried to scapegoat the fans!

I only mention my teaching experience because I know how quickly a class can lose respect for you. You let an incident like that go and within a short space of time they will all be walking all over you and it becomes very difficult to ever get that back. It is the same with management.

I have been soft on Lukaku as there are some mitigating factors and in honesty the "lazy" label I don't feel overly comfortable throwing around as it seems a bit easy. However his performances over the last few weeks, since he's decided to leave have been appalling. His performance at Wembley was his best for weeks by a long shot. Forget missing chances, at least he put in some effort. Players going out onto the football pitch with a couldn't care less attitude, in part due to them thinking Martinez is a joke.
Mirallas I would put into that category. A strong manager tears a strip of them for doing that.

Then you have Barkley & Deulofeu neither of them are fit enough. How are young players going to get better when they are not challenged?

I am terrified currently. We will be in a relegation dogfight next season under this management. This summer for me is a once in a decade opportunity for us to make a statement. It remains only 2 bad seasons, 1 with two semi finals. We have new investment. A certain quality of manager may be interested in us. Leave it 6 months and I really think we could be back at having to have David Moyes come in. I am terrified, that against all logic we keep Martinez.

The same of what I was saying of Martinez, is true of Kenwright and now Moshiri. If you tolerate a 4-0 annihilation at Anfield how will you ever win anything?

 

[Toffeeslam]

Or maybe its because their fans are always behind their team?

To cultish levels but still... there is a reason why they keep scraping results out in epic encounters with last minute goals and why we always seem to falter at the final hurdle. There is a winning culture at Liverpool. There hasnt been a winning culture at Everton for years.

Unfortunately I think your right.

I was hoping that Morshiri would end this small club thinking, maybe he will in time but at the minute the board are just hiding

If they want Martinez to start next season then come out and say it ( I absolutely don't for the record )

If they intend on sacking him then just do it and talk to a new manager so there is a whole summer to prepare

Why just drift and keep Everyone guessing ??? Dreading to think of the carnage on Saturday evening if we get the same as we have been lately and it could get really nasty for Martinez.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Or maybe its because their fans are always behind their team?

To cultish levels but still... there is a reason why they keep scraping results out in epic encounters with last minute goals and why we always seem to falter at the final hurdle. There is a winning culture at Liverpool. There hasnt been a winning culture at Everton for years....

.....within the boardroom'

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Has Barkley improved under martinez or has he just made the natural progression of someone with his talent should have?

For me improving him would mean the aspects of his game that were not good already.

His fitness levels are atrocious now. His decicision making has hardly improved and his all round game has not improved he has just made progress on what he is already good at for me.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Thanks mate, sorry I went a bit OTT on your post and off topic.

You are right though. I was a teacher for a few years and in some ways it had similarities to being a manager. You had to keep control of people, develop them, build their confidence but most importantly maintain a position of authority.

Stones was messing about in January. Playing for himself, taking undue and silly risks and jeopardising the team for his own ends. That was a test to Martinez's authority where the whole squad including Stones would have been watching to see what he did. He should have hung him out to dry, both publicly and privately after that. This wasn't a young player struggling for form, or playing through injury, or having a bad game trying their best, but one who was deliberately undermining the team ethic. Not only did he not criticise him publically but he actually praised him and tried to scapegoat the fans!

I only mention my teaching experience because I know how quickly a class can lose respect for you. You let an incident like that go and within a short space of time they will all be walking all over you and it becomes very difficult to ever get that back. It is the same with management.

I have been soft on Lukaku as there are some mitigating factors and in honesty the "lazy" label I don't feel overly comfortable throwing around as it seems a bit easy. However his performances over the last few weeks, since he's decided to leave have been appalling. His performance at Wembley was his best for weeks by a long shot. Forget missing chances, at least he put in some effort. Players going out onto the football pitch with a couldn't care less attitude, in part due to them thinking Martinez is a joke.
Mirallas I would put into that category. A strong manager tears a strip of them for doing that.

Then you have Barkley & Deulofeu neither of them are fit enough. How are young players going to get better when they are not challenged?

I am terrified currently. We will be in a relegation dogfight next season under this management. This summer for me is a once in a decade opportunity for us to make a statement. It remains only 2 bad seasons, 1 with two semi finals. We have new investment. A certain quality of manager may be interested in us. Leave it 6 months and I really think we could be back at having to have David Moyes come in. I am terrified, that against all logic we keep Martinez.

The same of what I was saying of Martinez, is true of Kenwright and now Moshiri. If you tolerate a 4-0 annihilation at Anfield how will you ever win anything?

Two in three years seemingly hadn't even impacted anyone within Everton. Heads would have rolled had it been the other way round. The fact that it hasn't occurred the other way in most people's life times tell you everything you need to know about the differing ambitions of the clubs.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

This thread is an endless loop lol

My earlier point on the futility of this thread is echoed once again ina reflection of my earlier deja vu comment.

 

[Ashtonluke]

Unfortunately I think your right.

I was hoping that Morshiri would end this small club thinking, maybe he will in time but at the minute the board are just hiding

If they want Martinez to start next season then come out and say it ( I absolutely don't for the record )

If they intend on sacking him then just do it and talk to a new manager so there is a whole summer to prepare

Why just drift and keep Everyone guessing ??? Dreading to think of the carnage on Saturday evening if we get the same as we have been lately and it could get really nasty for Martinez.

You make a good point here. Some sort of statement would potentially diffuse the situation or at least provide clarity. If it really is the position that nothing will be done until the end of the season then issue a statement (like Watford did) essentially saying that all footballing matters will be reviewed by the board at the end of the season and deal with things then. It at least takes some pressure off. If they are going to part with him at the end of the season then at least they do so under the guise of an end of season review.

Similarly, if they are going to back him in the summer then fans need to know. People may not like it but at least we would have clarity. At the moment it is some sort of purgatory where the fans have no clue what the board's position is and all it will do is lead to chaos on Saturday, especially if we are as bad as we were in the derby and in the 1st half against united.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Thanks mate, sorry I went a bit OTT on your post and off topic.

You are right though. I was a teacher for a few years and in some ways it had similarities to being a manager. You had to keep control of people, develop them, build their confidence but most importantly maintain a position of authority.

Stones was messing about in January. Playing for himself, taking undue and silly risks and jeopardising the team for his own ends. That was a test to Martinez's authority where the whole squad including Stones would have been watching to see what he did. He should have hung him out to dry, both publicly and privately after that. This wasn't a young player struggling for form, or playing through injury, or having a bad game trying their best, but one who was deliberately undermining the team ethic. Not only did he not criticise him publically but he actually praised him and tried to scapegoat the fans!

I only mention my teaching experience because I know how quickly a class can lose respect for you. You let an incident like that go and within a short space of time they will all be walking all over you and it becomes very difficult to ever get that back. It is the same with management.

I have been soft on Lukaku as there are some mitigating factors and in honesty the "lazy" label I don't feel overly comfortable throwing around as it seems a bit easy. However his performances over the last few weeks, since he's decided to leave have been appalling. His performance at Wembley was his best for weeks by a long shot. Forget missing chances, at least he put in some effort. Players going out onto the football pitch with a couldn't care less attitude, in part due to them thinking Martinez is a joke.
Mirallas I would put into that category. A strong manager tears a strip of them for doing that.

Then you have Barkley & Deulofeu neither of them are fit enough. How are young players going to get better when they are not challenged?

I am terrified currently. We will be in a relegation dogfight next season under this management. This summer for me is a once in a decade opportunity for us to make a statement. It remains only 2 bad seasons, 1 with two semi finals. We have new investment. A certain quality of manager may be interested in us. Leave it 6 months and I really think we could be back at having to have David Moyes come in. I am terrified, that against all logic we keep Martinez.

The same of what I was saying of Martinez, is true of Kenwright and now Moshiri. If you tolerate a 4-0 annihilation at Anfield how will you ever win anything?

I agree with this but....(there's always a but isn't there)....we should remember that MARTINEZ has, numerous times, 'encouraged' young players to make mistakes (I'll dig out the ints). He has said it in relation to ROSS and I'm POSITIVE he's said it RE STONES. And this is an issue for me...it somehow takes the 'learning from mistakes' ethic a tad to far as instead of learning they seem to have been encouraged to continue doing the same (sound familiar?). And I think it's backfired quite dramatically in that we now see a kid zapped of confidence because he's played to instruction so often. In short- a defender who's lost the knack of plain old defending...

During his WIGAN tenure RM made varying comments RE that he didn't feel 'young' players are ready 'til they're 22-23, that they have to earn their place and learn their craft. He suggested this should only differ in exceptional cases. So, if he applies that here - and he tends NOT to stray too far from type - then he'll have instilled in them the belief that they ARE exceptional. He's a believable guy and this is a good thing, within reason. So now we have a player who's hugely naturally gifted yet, at this moment, doesn't quite seem sure as to what sort of player he actually is. He was a staunch, confident, dependable defender....now he's so prone to mistake and conditioned to faffing that, frankly, he's a liability...

He's an odd one, the BOB is.

 

[1966efc]

You make a good point here. Some sort of statement would potentially diffuse the situation or at least provide clarity. If it really is the position that nothing will be done until the end of the season then issue a statement (like Watford did) essentially saying that all footballing matters will be reviewed by the board at the end of the season and deal with things then. It at least takes some pressure off. If they are going to part with him at the end of the season then at least they do so under the guise of an end of season review.

Similarly, if they are going to back him in the summer then fans need to know. People may not like it but at least we would have clarity. At the moment it is some sort of purgatory where the fans have no clue what the board's position is and all it will do is lead to chaos on Saturday, especially if we are as bad as we were in the derby and in the 1st half against united.

There may well be all sorts of commercial / contractual issues which need to be sorted out confidentially but the management of the whole situation has been appallingly poor - and all too typical of this club.

 

[ijjysmith]

Has Barkley improved under martinez or has he just made the natural progression of someone with his talent should have?

For me improving him would mean the aspects of his game that were not good already.

His fitness levels are atrocious now. His decicision making has hardly improved and his all round game has not improved he has just made progress on what he is already good at for me.

If Barkley has one more pre season under Roberto Martinez he'll end up with type 2 diabetes.

I stole this joke.