Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[eddy]

No sources whatsoever, so have to take it lightly at best, but it's hardly surprising if true is it?

Press are like vultures, never good when this sort of thing appears, usually just a matter of time.
I think he is done for and rightly so, its the same old same old week in week out, run ourselves stupid concede with minutes to go.
He has run out of time, ten games is not going to make a difference and Mosh would want stability not speculation,
Coco dead man walking, I think if he gets canned next week Mosh is showing he is ruthlessly ambitious, and I think you have to be in this league
He isnt going to bs his way out of this one, I would prefer mutual consent end of season, bit more classy, respectful and EFC

 

[tremont]

As is well documented he was tasked with slashing the wage bill at Wigan and selling their best players to generate funds.

He also won an FA Cup.

Why do we need to use Wigan as a stick to beat Martinez with? It shows crazed determination to smear him.

We only have Wigan, and the last two seasons here, as a yardstick for the premier league. Of those six seasons, only one was decent. This season is not going to be a good one (league wise). I am not showing crazed determination to smear him. His track record in the premier league does that. His track record for not being able to organize a defence does that. His game management does that.

I actually want him to succeed at Everton, but there is absolutely nothing in his history that suggests that he will. I was on the fence until last Saturday. I couldn't believe what I witnessed. Even if we pretend that it wasn't an epic mistake on his part with the Niasse/Lennon substitution, it was still obvious that he had no intention of shutting the game out. Yeah - I get that Mirallas didn't help, and the penalty miss didn't help, but we were still 2-0 up with ten men on the pitch, with fifteen minutes to go, and still it didn't cross his mind to kill the game. This happened against Stoke. I won't count the Chelsea or Bournemouth games, as we only got a lead late on (I know we were 2-0 up in both games, but there was still a a long way to go).

We are talking about a guy who under his management, seen us lose 6-3 at home. We are talking about a guy that, even in that first season when we got 72 point, got us murdered 4-0 in the derby. He isn't fixing it.

Thing is, I would still have him here, but he needs to sack his back room staff and get some decent coaches in. He won't though.

 

[chicoazul]

We only have Wigan, and the last two seasons here, as a yardstick for the premier league. Of those six seasons, only one was decent. This season is not going to be a good one (league wise). I am not showing crazed determination to smear him. His track record in the premier league does that. His track record for not being able to organize a defence does that. His game management does that.

I actually want him to succeed at Everton, but there is absolutely nothing in his history that suggests that he will. I was on the fence until last Saturday. I couldn't believe what I witnessed. Even if we pretend that it wasn't an epic mistake on his part with the Niasse/Lennon substitution, it was still obvious that he had no intention of shutting the game out. Yeah - I get that Mirallas didn't help, and the penalty miss didn't help, but we were still 2-0 up with ten men on the pitch, with fifteen minutes to go, and still it didn't cross his mind to kill the game. This happened against Stoke. I won't count the Chelsea or Bournemouth games, as we only got a lead late on (I know we were 2-0 up in both games, but there was still a a long way to go).

We are talking about a guy who under his management, seen us lose 6-3 at home. We are talking about a guy that, even in that first season when we got 72 point, got us murdered 4-0 in the derby. He isn't fixing it.

Thing is, I would still have him here, but he needs to sack his back room staff and get some decent coaches in. He won't though.

Aye fair response that.

 

[chicoazul]

Has he gone yet....

I know for defo if he crawled into bed with you that you'd give him a naughty cuddle so don't be pretending otherwise.

 

[eddy]

We only have Wigan, and the last two seasons here, as a yardstick for the premier league. Of those six seasons, only one was decent. This season is not going to be a good one (league wise). I am not showing crazed determination to smear him. His track record in the premier league does that. His track record for not being able to organize a defence does that. His game management does that.

I actually want him to succeed at Everton, but there is absolutely nothing in his history that suggests that he will. I was on the fence until last Saturday. I couldn't believe what I witnessed. Even if we pretend that it wasn't an epic mistake on his part with the Niasse/Lennon substitution, it was still obvious that he had no intention of shutting the game out. Yeah - I get that Mirallas didn't help, and the penalty miss didn't help, but we were still 2-0 up with ten men on the pitch, with fifteen minutes to go, and still it didn't cross his mind to kill the game. This happened against Stoke. I won't count the Chelsea or Bournemouth games, as we only got a lead late on (I know we were 2-0 up in both games, but there was still a a long way to go).

We are talking about a guy who under his management, seen us lose 6-3 at home. We are talking about a guy that, even in that first season when we got 72 point, got us murdered 4-0 in the derby. He isn't fixing it.

Thing is, I would still have him here, but he needs to sack his back room staff and get some decent coaches in. He won't though.

Im dreading the derby, the only good thing about this season is Moshiri. I wanted Martinez to succeed, but it became clear to me last year watching the derby that he cannot even limit the damage, he just stood there like a clueless buffoon! It never registered with him how much that defeat hurt .... it hurt deep and badly, has he learnt from it, serving up more of the same! And then we have to endure the `positivity lecture` post match interview! Im waiting for him to lay blame on the `gravitational pull of the earth and moon on the flight of the ball ` next!
End of the day we employed a guy who got a team relegated speaks volumes really

 

[Groucho]

obvious that he had no intention of shutting the game out.

As ugly as it may be, there is a time and place for running the ball into the corners and wasting time.

Saturday was it - fancy football to go 2 or 3-0 up, then defend your lead any way possible, ugly footie if need be. It's a balance that's needed.

 

[tremont]

Im dreading the derby, the only good thing about this season is Moshiri. I wanted Martinez to succeed, but it became clear to me last year watching the derby that he cannot even limit the damage, he just stood there like a clueless buffoon! It never registered with him how much that defeat hurt .... it hurt deep and badly, has he learnt from it, serving up more of the same! And then we have to endure the `positivity lecture` post match interview! Im waiting for him to lay blame on the `gravitational pull of the earth and moon on the flight of the ball ` next!
End of the day we employed a guy who got a team relegated speaks volumes really

Worst. Night. Ever.

Thing is, I honestly think that if we hadn't beat Man Utd at Old Trafford a few months earlier, then we wouldn't have lost 4-0. I had the feeling going into that game that "this was going to be the season when we put all the ghosts to bed" ie - beating Man Utd and Liverpool at their place etc. It was as if Liverpool, when they went 1-0 up, hadn't read the script. We seemed to take offence at it, and went at them, determined to have our win at Anfield. Unfortunately, we all know what happened next. I blame Jagielka as much as I blame Martinez for that game though - He was the captain on the pitch, and should have calmed everybody down.

The bottom line though, is that Martinez is failing. He and/or his backroom staff should be replaced. If he is sacked, then fair enough, he failed. Won't stop me being a little bit gutted though, as I genuinely wanted him to do well.

 

[eddy]

Worst. Night. Ever.

Thing is, I honestly think that if we hadn't beat Man Utd at Old Trafford a few months earlier, then we wouldn't have lost 4-0. I had the feeling going into that game that "this was going to be the season when we put all the ghosts to bed" ie - beating Man Utd and Liverpool at their place etc. It was as if Liverpool, when they went 1-0 up, hadn't read the script. We seemed to take offence at it, and went at them, determined to have our win at Anfield. Unfortunately, we all know what happened next. I blame Jagielka as much as I blame Martinez for that game though - He was the captain on the pitch, and should have calmed everybody down.

The bottom line though, is that Martinez is failing. He and/or his backroom staff should be replaced. If he is sacked, then fair enough, he failed. Won't stop me being a little bit gutted though, as I genuinely wanted him to do well.

Me too, I think everyone wanted him to succeed but the wheels are falling off. I am dreading the derby and Arsenal matches
they have us sussed and the players to punish our defence, its the dreaded weekly aerial bombardment. One of the West Ham players admitted targeting us in this way, yet we have no answer to counter this

 

[bluestevon]

Worst. Night. Ever.

Thing is, I honestly think that if we hadn't beat Man Utd at Old Trafford a few months earlier, then we wouldn't have lost 4-0. I had the feeling going into that game that "this was going to be the season when we put all the ghosts to bed" ie - beating Man Utd and Liverpool at their place etc. It was as if Liverpool, when they went 1-0 up, hadn't read the script. We seemed to take offence at it, and went at them, determined to have our win at Anfield. Unfortunately, we all know what happened next. I blame Jagielka as much as I blame Martinez for that game though - He was the captain on the pitch, and should have calmed everybody down.

The bottom line though, is that Martinez is failing. He and/or his backroom staff should be replaced. If he is sacked, then fair enough, he failed. Won't stop me being a little bit gutted though, as I genuinely wanted him to do well.

Martinez was to blame 100% for that game mate, stones at rb, Alcaraz who should never be on the ptich ever ever at cb and a half fit Jagielka rushed back for it from memory, was shocking team decisions from him

 

[Toffeeslam]

As ugly as it may be, there is a time and place for running the ball into the corners and wasting time.

Saturday was it - fancy football to go 2 or 3-0 up, then defend your lead any way possible, ugly footie if need be. It's a balance that's needed.

Totally agree.

The name of the game is winning and there are no prizes for pretty football only

What you ant is a balance between good attacking football but hard nosed stubborn defending when needed and we can't do the latter

 

[whiteshadow]

I'm not sure RM deserves to stay but ......

Wigan weren't a big club who spent a decent amount of money on wages. You can't do a like for like league position comparison, in relation to expectations for us. It's misleading, scewed and foolhardy at best.

Saying a manager ain't any good cos he had rubbish results with a small club with little money is like saying a manager in charge of Man City is great cos he finished 2nd.

Doing either is stupid and just demonstrates how people like to mislead, twist and obscure stats in justification of their own views instead of analysing data objectively.

There's plenty of 'real' evidence to knock RM with, people don't need to twist facts, stats, etc to make an argument against him. All it does is take away from the credible points people have against him when they're using stuff like that.

 

[tremont]

Martinez was to blame 100% for that game mate, stones at rb, Alcaraz who should never be on the ptich ever ever at cb and a half fit Jagielka rushed back for it from memory, was shocking team decisions from him

Yeah I remember thinking that we had rushed too many players back from injury.

I wasn't too happy about Martinez being appointed to be honest, but he had won me over that season. It was that night, that I thought maybe I was right with my initial concerns. Unfortunately, there has been too many times that are confirming what I feared from day one. Don't get me wrong - he has given me some great memories, but he did that for Wigan fans

 

[tremont]

I'm not sure RM deserves to stay but ......

Wigan weren't a big club who spent a decent amount of money on wages. You can't do a like for like league position comparison, in relation to expectations for us. It's misleading, scewed and foolhardy at best.

Saying a manager ain't any good cos he had rubbish results with a small club with little money is like saying a manager in charge of Man City is great cos he finished 2nd.

Doing either is stupid and just demonstrates how people like to mislead, twist and obscure stats in justification of their own views instead of analysing data objectively.

There's plenty of 'real' evidence to knock RM with, people don't need to twist facts, stats, etc to make an argument against him. All it does is take away from the credible points people have against him when they're using stuff like that.

But you can do a like for like comparison with regards to how they did in the premier league in the three seasons before he took over. They went downhill when he took charge. If anything Martinez had the advantage, as Wigan were already half way to establishing themselves in the premier league. He just had to keep it going.

 

[whiteshadow]

But you can do a like for like comparison with regards to how they did in the premier league in the three seasons before he took over. They went downhill when he took charge. If anything Martinez had the advantage, as Wigan were already half way to establishing themselves in the premier league. He just had to keep it going.

I agree with that, you can argue he should have done better than he did there. That's a fair argument.

What I find crazy is some people are posting his last 6 seasons league positions as if he'd got those same positions with us, which is just stupid.

 

[tremont]

I agree with that, you can argue he should have done better than he did there. That's a fair argument.

What I find crazy is some people are posting his last 6 seasons league positions as if he'd got those same positions with us, which is just stupid.

Yeah, I can see what you mean there mate. I am not anti-Martinez. I actually like the guy. I am just finding it difficult to believe that he is going to change his 'philosophy'. If I am honest, I don't think he is a million miles from getting it right - but he has never been more than a million miles from getting it right. That's the worry. He isn't getting any closer to getting it right. It might appear like that some days, but then it just goes back to what we thought it was.