Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[davek]

By that logic Liverpool should have stuck with Rodgers then Dave?

BTW because you want Martinez to be given much more time - in fact it appears you want to constantly change the goalposts on the ammount of time he should get, given the fact you have already been vaulted by i believe @The Esk a few weeks back on a earlier post where you stated thatif he didn't meet certain criteria he should be gone - criteria he didn't meet btw

Now you reckon he should hav emore time, so contradicting your earleir definitive stance.

and if Martinez doesn't get this constantly shifting added timeframe then whatever new manager comes in you will take it out on, unbelievably petulant behaviour really mate, bit like taking your ball home with you

Ridiculous post. I never said Martinez should go and then contradicted myself on it. Never.

To the substantive point: RM got three seasons it seems. Any new manager coming in and spending massive cash has less time. It's not controversial, it's the way it is. Get success or get out. Then are the rules we now play by. What everton managers got away with in the past to avoid the push is not in play anymore. Even a manager like Martinez who hasn't enjoyed the Moshiri levels of funding has to adhere to that new culture, so you can bet your bottom Rouble that a man spending a kings ransom will be fired if they don't get success in two seasons.

 

[deipnosophist]

Looking at Wigan's performance over four seasons with RM at the helm, in the first season, 2009/10, Wigan somehow stayed up with just 36 pts, losing 20 games and with a goal difference of -42. If they had gone down that year I doubt we would ever have heard of him again as a contender for anything better jobwise.

In all, 152 league games in charge and a whopping 275 goals conceded.

He is a very poor manager.

 

[Mogwai]

All this toing and froing with davek is pointless. I know a lot of people enjoy the banter but no-one will convince him that Martinez should go and he will not convince anyone that he should stay.

I am pretty sure he doesn't actually believe Martinez should stay... He just likes the attention

 

[hktoffee]

Moyes got 4th. Highest finishing since the inception of PL.

72 points trophy got 5th.

So any sane people will say 4th is a better achievement.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Ridiculous post. I never said Martinez should go and then contradicted myself on it. Never.

To the substantive point: RM got three seasons it seems. Any new manager coming in and spending massive cash has less time. It's not controversial, it's the way it is. Get success or get out. Then are the rules we now play by. What everton managers got away with in the past to avoid the push is not in play anymore. Even a manager like Martinez who hasn't enjoyed the Moshiri levels of funding has to adhere to that new culture, so you can bet your bottom Rouble that a man spending a kings ransom will be fired if they don't get success in two seasons.

Martinez successor has knack all to do with HIS failure.

He's failed for 2 seasons and no amount of your boring, puerile, one eyed spin, alters that simple and straightforward fact.

You backed the wrong horse, get over it.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It's not even our losses that is bad as we only only lost1 more game then Liverpool, the same losses as city and southampton but that we drawn to many.

I know it been a bad season but we are over reacting tbf

Think about the points lost from winning positions....add to that the amount of points gained from losing positions...And there you have it.

 

[davek]

Sad to see a nice bloke, and a fine ambassador for Everton, not being quite at the level we need.

His words at the 25th Hillsborough anniversary will live long in the memory.

He got us. Embraced the club, and he will always be an Everton manager. Not many can say that.

I agree, but more than that he set the standard on what a successful PL season looks like. Not just a nice feller, he set a goal that whoever comes in WILL be judged by. I will certainly be looking closely at points per pounds value of whoever comes in...and I doubt Ill find Roberto lacking by comparison some how.

 

[harry]

Change the system

Change the players coaching

Use one of the 6 transfer windows to improve your midfield

I haven't said he isn't to blame but the players must take some responsibility.

Back to your post. I don't think the system is the problem, we don't seem to react to lose balls. We could fill the midfield with centre halves but it's a balance. I do agree that our fullbacks push to far up the pitch and our defensive midfielders do not cover adequately.

 

[bluewally]

Ridiculous post. I never said Martinez should go and then contradicted myself on it. Never.

To the substantive point: RM got three seasons it seems. Any new manager coming in and spending massive cash has less time. It's not controversial, it's the way it is. Get success or get out. Then are the rules we now play by. What everton managers got away with in the past to avoid the push is not in play anymore. Even a manager like Martinez who hasn't enjoyed the Moshiri levels of funding has to adhere to that new culture, so you can bet your bottom Rouble that a man spending a kings ransom will be fired if they don't get success in two seasons.

No Dave the rules are as they should be with any ambitious club which we should be now

Show progress or leave

Any manager who takes a team backwards can't realistically expect to keep his job can he. A one season blip can be forgiven but we are in the midst of sustained underachievement

Watford have a similar record to us this year and their manager is under pressure

Watford hold their manager to higher standards than you do ours

 

[Abertonian]

I have a long-standing view that football is all about short-termism and a project like the current manager had when he joined the Club can't be easily done in 3 seasons. You may quote Ranieri, and that's fine, but will he be as successful next season? I don't think so, so what will they do, sack him for regression?
I also think certain players have done the Club a huge disservice by playing for themselves, not holding their hands up when they've made schoolboy errors, spoken to the press when they should keep stuff in house and generally thinking they're much better than they are. All this crap about wanting to play in the CL is nonsense....it's about bigger salaries nothing more. If Everton offered Lukaku twice as much per month as a CL side I know where he'd be playing. And besides, most Clubs have zero chance of winning the CL and those that qualifying generally get 4-5 games before being dumped by the big guns.
I accept Martinez is on really thin ice, and that forum-wise getting rid is a popular choice. I was ridiculed a couple of weeks ago for saying the forum view wasn't neccesarily representative of the match day crowd view, and Saturdays protest confirmed that for me. Around 100 from a crowd of 36,000 to 37,000. I understand some want to protest, and it was done in the proper way, with the exception of idiots giving the manager grief in the car park. But the numbers were less than a single percentage point. I'm not into stats but that's hardly a sway of opinion.
In terms of when it's right for the manager to go I'd say 10-12 games into the new season when he knows what he has squad-wise and if we're not picking up points at home and sat below 6th or 7th.
Not a popular view on here but an honest one nonetheless. Be nice to have an opinion without the usual suspects attacking it.....it is what it is, I respect the 'out' vote if that's what you want, so let's see a little bit of reciprocation.
Everton as a Club have always stood shoulders above everyone else where class and dignity are concerned - Saturday's tribute to the families of the 96 epitomised it, and I think RM has that in bundles and has put together a really promising squad - so, I'd like to see him given some time.

You know that was refreshing to read, even if it's not in line with my opinion.

I think what you've demonstrated and dare I say it other pro-Martinez posters, is a yearning for the way football was. Let's not forget that Howard's first spell, and sir Alex's success at Utd, demonstrated the virtue of patience and letting someone learn how to turn things around. Alas in 2016 there is no patience in football and people quibbling online won't change any of that.

The champions league thing I totally agree with, it's an utter cop out of an excuse designed to dress up greed as something else. But there is no getting away from it, the power is all in the players hands. If this were the 80s they'd all be told to pipe down and see out their contracts which would hopefully buy the manager enough time to turn things round, but it's not the 80s. We will likely see Rom, stones and maybe more make big plays to leave the club this summer, and rightly or wrongly their desire to leave the club will be blamed on the managers failings.

Roberto has been more than a little short sighted and I think now there is no going back for him. Whether that's because he's too stubborn, incapable or something else I don't know. He's not the only one to blame though and removing him won't necessarily cure all ills.

The players need a good kick up the arris.
Someone in the club should have had the foresight to pull RM aside and tell him to cut the bull in the press a long long time ago.
That picture should never have gone up on the stand.
We really need to establish a boot room for a manager to work with. Guys like GJ and DL aren't good enough.

We need leaders all through the club.

 

[quasi modo]

Look it's quite simple: we've been taking part in the PL since it's inception 24 years ago; we've had six managers in that time and none have gotten anywhere near smashing through the 70 points barrier. Martinez got 72 points.

Anyone coming after him has to break through that record in order to prove themselves That's the benchmark. That's the record set by Roberto Martinez.

Well he can't reach his own benchmark so it must be time to go on that logic.

 

[willo30]

Look it's quite simple: we've been taking part in the PL since it's inception 24 years ago; we've had six managers in that time and none have gotten anywhere near smashing through the 70 points barrier. Martinez got 72 points.

Anyone coming after him has to break through that record in order to prove themselves That's the benchmark. That's the record set by Roberto Martinez.

The benchmark will be winning more than him which up to this point is erm... nothing. Kendall and Royle won more than him here and both were removed from their posts so I don't see how Bobby gets a free ride off you for something he did 2 years ago.

 

[davek]

Martinez successor has knack all to do with HIS failure.

He's failed for 2 seasons and no amount of your boring, puerile, one eyed spin, alters that simple and straightforward fact.

You backed the wrong horse, get over it.

A standard of points has been set.

Struggle all you want to set any newcomer an easy bar to get over but it won't work. They will spend more and be judged even more harshly. This is the new culture. Deal with it.

 

[bluewally]

I haven't said he isn't to blame but the players must take some responsibility.

Back to your post. I don't think the system is the problem, we don't seem to react to lose balls. We could fill the midfield with centre halves but it's a balance. I do agree that our fullbacks push to far up the pitch and our defensive midfielders do not cover adequately.

But that's how they are coached

These are players he brought in to fit his system

 

[jazzy]

I agree, but more than that he set the standard on what a successful PL season looks like. Not just a nice feller, he set a goal that whoever comes in WILL be judged by. I will certainly be looking closely at points per pounds value of whoever comes in...and I doubt Ill find Roberto lacking by comparison some how.

But the reality is that no one cares what you think