Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[EvertonRhys]

Dave, have you lost all real sense of self awareness lad?

Seriously questioning your sanity / motives / reasoning here for any of this.

I don't know you, know how old you are or anything about you. But you are coming across on here like a proper ranting mentalist.

I hope for your sake you can overcome this torment that seems to be ruining your life.

When he is potted hopefully you will find peace and remember you are an evertonian and not here just to bang the drum of some second rate manager.

Reminds me of this!

 

[Yankfootball1]

Moyes got 4th. Highest finishing since the inception of PL.

72 points trophy got 5th.

So any sane people will say 4th is a better achievement.

Not really. The 72 points is a better achievement in a tougher league than the fourth. You can only control your games in relation to your points. Hence it is reasonable to say 72 and 5th is a better season than the season Moyes team finished fourth (61 points). Everton had a -1 goal differential that year. Essentially the rest of the league was crap if you get fourth with a goal diff of -1.

BTW - This is not an endorsement of RM. I think he has proven unable to address the defensive failings either through his tactics or failure to drill players on defense. Either cause is his fault. He appears to have lost the dressing room with some players - and his positivity while admirable at first comes off as a bit "emperor has no clothes". For those reasons I don't think he will survive. The very best Everton can finish this year is 9th with 2 semi's. Not a great year but not dreadful as some would have you believe. I think we will probably end up 10th looking at the fixtures with 50 points.

@davek is correct in that the new manager will be judged under different criteria given the investment rumored to be coming occurs. However Everton fans feeling that we should win every game and moan that the manager is dreadful if we don't is unrealistic. The new PL with all the money will make it far more competitive than in the past - you can lose to any team. This is no La Liga or League One.

 

[lancs blue]

Martinez will leave after norwich match. Delay is due to surgeons waiting to remove a yellow cat from his rectum. Apparently hovering over a sauce of milk for seven days hasnt worked

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Is it any wonder that those still showing support for Martinez don't enter discussions to try and defend him when you look at the respone to those that have voted IN.

I've seen kopite and RAWK shouts directed at them all over the place. Why arent they entitled to a different opinion without a witch hunt ensuing?

Sad state of affairs.

See as many, if not more going in the opposite direction.

Frankly, too many people are too concerned with something called 'kopite behaviour'

Like I said here;

Kopite behaviour, Like Geordies etc.

Since when were Evertonians so obsessed with being associated with other clubs?

Who cares what Liverpool fans do, who cares what Newcastle fans do?

We're Everton. Worry about, Everton and just Everton.

Fans wanting a change of manager aren't kopites.
Fans wanting us to keep the manager, aren't kopites.

I'm hopeful one day we'll have an automated warning system and any mention of 'kopite behaviour' will automatically incur warning points because it's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Not really. The 72 points is a better achievement in a tougher league than the fourth. You can only control your games in relation to your points. Hence it is reasonable to say 72 and 5th is a better season than the season Moyes team finished fourth (61 points). Everton had a -1 goal differential that year. Essentially the rest of the league was crap if you get fourth with a goal diff of -1.

BTW - This is not an endorsement of RM. I think he has proven unable to address the defensive failings either through his tactics or failure to drill players on defense. Either cause is his fault. He appears to have lost the dressing room with some players - and his positivity while admirable at first comes off as a bit "emperor has no clothes". For those reasons I don't think he will survive. The very best Everton can finish this year is 9th with 2 semi's. Not a great year but not dreadful as some would have you believe. I think we will probably end up 10th looking at the fixtures with 50 points.

@davek is correct in that the new manager will be judged under different criteria given the investment rumored to be coming occurs. However Everton fans feeling that we should win every game and moan that the manager is dreadful if we don't is unrealistic. The new PL with all the money will make it far more competitive than in the past - you can lose to any team. This is no La Liga or League One.

The answer is that you have to examine the context of the supposed achievement.

Moyes achieved 4th with Marcus Bent as his prime striker, Martinez took a side that finished 6th and had the luxury of adding £28m worth of striker to it (albeit on loan at that point).

Which was the bigger achievement? I know what my view is.

 

[arminisgod]

Davek is right. 72 points is the bench mark for any new manager.

Moyes gave us plenty of seasons as bad or worse than the last 2 of Martinez's.

It hasn't worked out but ill remember the first year he gave us and the belief that we are a big club again with the win at united and his stance over stones.

Something ill never forgive moyes for

 

[hktoffee]

Not really. The 72 points is a better achievement in a tougher league than the fourth. You can only control your games in relation to your points. Hence it is reasonable to say 72 and 5th is a better season than the season Moyes team finished fourth (61 points). Everton had a -1 goal differential that year. Essentially the rest of the league was crap if you get fourth with a goal diff of -1.

BTW - This is not an endorsement of RM. I think he has proven unable to address the defensive failings either through his tactics or failure to drill players on defense. Either cause is his fault. He appears to have lost the dressing room with some players - and his positivity while admirable at first comes off as a bit "emperor has no clothes". For those reasons I don't think he will survive. The very best Everton can finish this year is 9th with 2 semi's. Not a great year but not dreadful as some would have you believe. I think we will probably end up 10th looking at the fixtures with 50 points.

@davek is correct in that the new manager will be judged under different criteria given the investment rumored to be coming occurs. However Everton fans feeling that we should win every game and moan that the manager is dreadful if we don't is unrealistic. The new PL with all the money will make it far more competitive than in the past - you can lose to any team. This is no La Liga or League One.

No I don't agree with you so are many fans. The more successful you are the higher you finish up in the league. It is not measured via points and GD. Can't believe the pro Martinez are just as deluded. 72 points trophy is better than finishing 4th just wow.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Davek is right. 72 points is the bench mark for any new manager.

Moyes gave us plenty of seasons as bad or worse than the last 2 of Martinez's.

It hasn't worked out but ill remember the first year he gave us and the belief that we are a big club again with the win at united and his stance over stones.

Something ill never forgive moyes for

I don't think it is.

I think being in contention of a Europa league place until the final day of the season is.

Martinez said he'd bring top 4. 3 years into that initial 4 year deal and we're nowhere near it.

What is Everton's board minimum expectations for an Everton manager?

Prior Moshiri, as long as you wasn't looking like you'd be relegated you'd be safe as Everton manager.

Now Moshiri is here, I wonder what his minimum expectation is...

 

[deipnosophist]

The new manager will be extended time to implement his 'policies'. I do not think any rational Evertonian conceives of instant success. However, said rational Evertonians will not stand for endless BS being spouted whilst evidencing their team regressing at a rate of knots.
Certain RM cultists might "hold the new fella's feet to the fire", but that is only because they are angry that 'their'man has failed.
The rational amongst us (the majority) will exercise that rationality in giving the new fella time.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Not really. The 72 points is a better achievement in a tougher league than the fourth. You can only control your games in relation to your points. Hence it is reasonable to say 72 and 5th is a better season than the season Moyes team finished fourth (61 points). Everton had a -1 goal differential that year. Essentially the rest of the league was crap if you get fourth with a goal diff of -1.

BTW - This is not an endorsement of RM. I think he has proven unable to address the defensive failings either through his tactics or failure to drill players on defense. Either cause is his fault. He appears to have lost the dressing room with some players - and his positivity while admirable at first comes off as a bit "emperor has no clothes". For those reasons I don't think he will survive. The very best Everton can finish this year is 9th with 2 semi's. Not a great year but not dreadful as some would have you believe. I think we will probably end up 10th looking at the fixtures with 50 points.

@davek is correct in that the new manager will be judged under different criteria given the investment rumored to be coming occurs. However Everton fans feeling that we should win every game and moan that the manager is dreadful if we don't is unrealistic. The new PL with all the money will make it far more competitive than in the past - you can lose to any team. This is no La Liga or League One.

Logically that can't be true. If you're fifth with 72 points it just means 4 teams ahead of you are also caning most of the other teams. It was a very weak league that year with a lot of dross that most recent sides were putting away consistently.

If you're fourth with 61 points it means only three sides finished ahead of you and there is not much dross in the league to batter if 16 sides can't finish above 61 points.

4th is better than 5th regardless of points.

 

[Yankfootball1]

The answer is that you have to examine the context of the supposed achievement.

Moyes achieved 4th with Marcus Bent as his prime striker, Martinez took a side that finished 6th and had the luxury of adding £28m worth of striker to it (albeit on loan at that point).

Which was the bigger achievement? I know what my view is.

Fair enough, my point is it's debatable. Everton in Moyes CL season was a mediocre team in a season that mediocre got you CL. I think 72 points with +22 in a tougher league is a better season than 61 points & -1 in a dreadful league.

 

[Bungle]

See as many, if not more going in the opposite direction.

Frankly, too many people are too concerned with something called 'kopite behaviour'

Like I said here;



Fans wanting a change of manager aren't kopites.
Fans wanting us to keep the manager, aren't kopites.

I'm hopeful one day we'll have an automated warning system and any mention of 'kopite behaviour' will automatically incur warning points because it's absolutely ridiculous.

I've been guilty of it, but seeing things like 'you need a brain transplant' directed at someone for a staunch defense of Martinez seems a bit off.

I want him gone as much as most for the record, but I can see why some want to give him a chance with a big pot of cash in the transfer window and then judge it.

 

[jceverton]

Of course, it was all Moyes work.

*sigh*

I'll ask you again as you keep dodging the question, if the first season was all down to Martinez why has he been unable to reproduce it?

 

[ianefc]

Is it any wonder that those still showing support for Martinez don't enter discussions to try and defend him when you look at the respone to those that have voted IN.

I've seen kopite and RAWK shouts directed at them all over the place. Why arent they entitled to a different opinion without a witch hunt ensuing?

Sad state of affairs.

Where have you seen that?

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I agree, but more than that he set the standard on what a successful PL season looks like. Not just a nice feller, he set a goal that whoever comes in WILL be judged by. I will certainly be looking closely at points per pounds value of whoever comes in...and I doubt Ill find Roberto lacking by comparison some how.

Set the standard, he was caretaker manager of a Moyes team, look at the state of us now he's had 2 seasons to drill his ways into the players.

It is clear why he had a good first season, and why we've been shocking since, he's took us backwards, constant Top 6 challenging side to a bottom half team.