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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Roberto's Dream said:
I'm going to be unpopular here, but he'll go down as a successth?or me. I'm not going to use stats because you can find good ones and bad ones (quite a lot) for Martinez.
Since he's been here, the whole clubs mindset has changed. We've went from Moyes and Neville and their top 10, 40 points comments (even Steve Round today on SSN mentioning us grinding out a 0-0) to us now with a squad that on its day, can match and beat most in the league. The fans' ambition has increased to believing we can be seriously successful - get champions league - people believed we could have won the Europa last season. Of course thinking and actually doing it is completely different, but Martinez's positivity, attacking style of play and his squad he's built has got us believing we can go on to better things. Moshiri has also raised our hopes and I'm not going to say Martinez is the reason he's here because he's not, it actually makes me realise what Martinez can do with Moshiri's millions this summer (if he's here).

I'll give an example in case it looks like I'm talking out of my arse. Does anyone remember the candidates to replace Moyes, and the bookies favourites? They were the mighty Phil Neville, Niel Lennon and Alan Stubbs. If anyone mentioned a Mourinho type then, you'll get called mad. Now the favourites to take over Martinez is Joachim Low, Pellegrini, and Mourinho has been mentioned. That's a huge difference in the calibre of managers and I'm not saying Martinez is 100% the reason why things have changed but he's part of it.

Another reason I have a soft spot for Martinez is the fact he gets Everton, he's a very classy man and has time for everyone. The thing with Margaret Aspinall was touching, and my support for him (and the 30 odd who voted in) is probably based on the fact I want to see him succeed and willing to give him a bit more time.

In my head, the above sounds logical but apologies to everyone if it's just gibberish. Also, I'm expecting people to disagree with me (and maybe some deluded shouts) and if you do, I'm willing to have a debate.
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Think that's more to do with the fact that we had no money in 2013 and now we have a billionaire.

Moyes left us in 6th. Martinez will most likely leave us in the bottom half.

That's the reality
 
davek said:
Two things:

I don't want Kenwright at all. I want moshiris money and like it or not currently that comes with Kenwright attached.

Secondly, the 72 points issue is not a moot beating of breast on behalf of the current manager. That total is almost certainly going to have to be replicated or even surpassed in order to get a CL spot in seasons to come. That's why it's important to point out that if any new manager falls short of a much less well funded manger's total (which is what the situation will be) then there's only one outcome: they have to go.

Any new boss will have support from me for the first season in the sense that I'd never call for his head after 12 months unless they were an utter disaster. But at the end of that first season I'd see fit to make a comment on them as to whether they were shaping up as a manager who can bring success....and they BETTER be showing signs of achieving that success by the middle of season two or all bets are off and they'll face calls for their head on a plate. And rightly so given the experiences of Martinez who hasn't had the Moshiri millions. That's why he reached three season in the job...but that won't apply in the future.

In a nutshell: the "top manager" coming in has to show they can get a CL spot or very closely miss out in his first season or show convincing evidence that he can secure that CL spot in his second season or he can get out of the club.


THAT ^^^ is where we stand as a club now. Basically we need to now judge our well funded managers on the same timescale and basis as the other elite financially funded clubs.
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That isn't where we stand at all. We have an ageing squad which needs rebuilding and our younger and more talented players will be difficult to keep after the 2 seasons of disastrous league form. There is also undoubtedly a higher standard of manager in charge of our rivals next season than there was in 13/14.

You saying you'll be calling for the managers head if we aren't competing for top 4 next season whilst supporting Martinez after the last 24 months just comes across as bitter, like a kid throwing his toys out of the Pram.

I'm calling it now, no matter who replaces Martinez, you won't be happy with them and will take any opportunity to dig them out, fortunately there will be so much vaulting of your support for Martinez that I think the forum will cope.
 
davek said:
EVERYTHING they do will be under scrutiny.

Come in here and replace one manager deemed not good enough on his record of achieving our top PL season and reaching two cup SFs (and at worst two midtable finishes) and he will be under the microscope at every turn.

They'll be spending big cash and much more scrutiny and higher standards than either Martinez or Moyes achieved is a necessity. If they can't handle that then they shouldn't apply for the post.

Success or the door. They are the two options for our managers in two seasons from now on. And rightly so.
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If any manager we hire puts up back to back seasons of 47 points or thereabouts then yes i think he should be sacked, in this game mate your only as good as your recent record and 3 seasons is a long time ago

Look at where we finished udner Harvey mate and the points totals too, and he got sacked because at that time we expected far more, IF Moshiri has that same level of expectation - which i hope he does have - then the bar will be set high, and frankly it should be - and IF we are to attract any quality manager then really they wouldn't come here if it wasn't
 

bluestevon said:
Dave this is the bloke i know and who actually posts some pretty decent stuff in the past, yes set expectations for the new manager, set high ones most certainly, if we don't we end up as a stoke at best and a Villa at worst, no club has ever been worse off by being more demanding of the manager and playing staff mate, as for Masrtinez - IF he had had always been managing a Everton owned by Moshiri then i dount he would have survived the Hull game last season and would have been very unlikely to have been in charge right now for certain - and overall in hindsight that would have been the right call.

Only thing wrong is that Kenwright is attached, he is attached as a dead limb waiting to be amputated right now mate, very soon he won't even be an afterthought, would say his influence right now is practically nothing anyroad.

72 points won't have to be replicated or succeeded for CL qualification mate, 70 points got 4th last year, this year the theorectical maximum for 4th will be 69 points, and more likely 3rd and 4th will finish around 67-70.

End of the day 72 points, 62 points, or whatever - the position at the top end of the table is what really matters.

P.S. nice to see you actually putting up a thought out post rather than hyperbole for a change mate, sincerely mean that
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On Martinez: that's a moot point as he'd have been spending massively under Moshiri and you'd expect any manager would not fail to add another 15 points onto his season total. Which leads neatly to the new man whomever that may be. That's fine if they get top four with as low a total as mid 60 points. No problem. But whether it takes 65 points or 75 points, they better get them because they won't survive past two seasons if they don't. If the level of spending is as promised they'll get one season bedding in and need to show something for it by the end of the first season by way of a decent points haul - not necessarily top four but 5th or 6th MINIMUM. If they don't they are right under the cosh in their second season and I'd want to see us top 5 by Christmas that second season or I'd push for his dismissal.

I can't underline this enough: the rules of the game changed fundamentally and these are the new rules. They are not high bar unrealistic targets, they are realistic. Don't meet them? There is the door - get through it. Then we appoint someone else.

Managers getting three seasons without success and spending big cash can't be tolerated.
 
davek said:
EVERYTHING they do will be under scrutiny.

Come in here and replace one manager deemed not good enough on his record of achieving our top PL season and reaching two cup SFs (and at worst two midtable finishes) and he will be under the microscope at every turn.

They'll be spending big cash and much more scrutiny and higher standards than either Martinez or Moyes achieved is a necessity. If they can't handle that then they shouldn't apply for the post.

Success or the door. They are the two options for our managers in two seasons from now on. And rightly so.
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Top Pl finish on an already established defensive unit. Then 2 bang average league finishes which were unacceptable for any fan with ambition and not happy with no progression.
 
Dixie D said:
No need for what...expressing my opinion?
I've already explained my reasons for using the word in the post above but that's clearly not good enough for you!
When you get the chance, look it up in the dictionary & you'll see how OTT your initial reaction was.
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Think you should drop it mate - the point is we discourage posters from making comments, even generalised comments, about other posters. It's bad forum etiquette and reduces the quality of debate.
 

davek said:
On Martinez: that's a moot point as he'd have been spending massively under Moshiri and you'd expect any manager would not fail to add another 15 points onto his season total. Which leads neatly to the new man whomever that may be. That's fine if they get top four with as low a total as mid 60 points. No problem. But whether it takes 65 points or 75 points, they better get them because they won't survive past two seasons if they don't. If the level of spending is as promised they'll get one season bedding in and need to show something for it by the end of the first season by way of a decent points haul - not necessarily top four but 5th or 6th MINIMUM? If they don't they are right under the cosh in their second season and I'd want to see us top 5 by Christmas that second season or I'd push for his dismissal.

I can't underline this enough: the rules of the game changed fundamentally and these are the new rules. They are not high bar unrealistic targets, they are realistic. Don't meet them? There is the door - get through it. Then we appoint someone else.

Managers getting three seasons without success and spending big cash can't be tolerated.
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What did you think about Roberto's open admission that yes, there are better ways to get results with our players, but no, he can't be arsed trying them?
 
roydo said:
Well put.

I too want(ed) him to succeed, and he has many good qualities.

He is, in my eyes, an Evertonian. But not one good enough to take us forward I am afraid.
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he would without a doubt not want to play second fiddle with some one else or even equal partner.
 

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