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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Roberto's Dream said:
I'm going to be unpopular here, but he'll go down as a success for me. I'm not going to use stats because you can find good ones and bad ones (quite a lot) for Martinez.
Since he's been here, the whole clubs mindset has changed. We've went from Moyes and Neville and their top 10, 40 points comments (even Steve Round today on SSN mentioning us grinding out a 0-0) to us now with a squad that on its day, can match and beat most in the league. The fans' ambition has increased to believing we can be seriously successful - get champions league - people believed we could have won the Europa last season. Of course thinking and actually doing it is completely different, but Martinez's positivity, attacking style of play and his squad he's built has got us believing we can go on to better things. Moshiri has also raised our hopes and I'm not going to say Martinez is the reason he's here because he's not, it actually makes me realise what Martinez can do with Moshiri's millions this summer (if he's here).

I'll give an example in case it looks like I'm talking out of my arse. Does anyone remember the candidates to replace Moyes, and the bookies favourites? They were the mighty Phil Neville, Niel Lennon and Alan Stubbs. If anyone mentioned a Mourinho type then, you'll get called mad. Now the favourites to take over Martinez is Joachim Low, Pellegrini, and Mourinho has been mentioned. That's a huge difference in the calibre of managers and I'm not saying Martinez is 100% the reason why things have changed but he's part of it.

Another reason I have a soft spot for Martinez is the fact he gets Everton, he's a very classy man and has time for everyone. The thing with Margaret Aspinall was touching, and my support for him (and the 30 odd who voted in) is probably based on the fact I want to see him succeed and willing to give him a bit more time.

In my head, the above sounds logical but apologies to everyone if it's just gibberish. Also, I'm expecting people to disagree with me (and maybe some deluded shouts) and if you do, I'm willing to have a debate.
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with most of what you said, but it's worth a debate. I agree with you that he changed the mindset when he first came and that was a positive move and yes there was a feeling that we could go and compete with anyone. The high point for that was the way we played against Man United and Arsenal away within a short period of time. However I think that view has generally declined based on what's happened over the last two seasons. This season for instance we haven't beaten any team in the top 6 home or away, and the two occasions we've met a top 6 team in the cup we've been knocked out. We've also been stuffed 4-0 by Liverpool twice and let's be honest in both of them it could have been more.

The prospective top managers is for me down to a couple of things and 90% nothing to do with Martinez. Firstly there is a lot more money in the league and this has evened out the competition. The old top 4 order has been smashed to pieces this season. Pelligrini made this point in an interview a few weeks back when he was stating this was one of the reasons he'd like to stay managing in England. This makes the Premier League a much more attractive place to come and manage, as you can potentially do very well and challenge for the league without managing the likes of Man City, Chelsea. Hence we've seen an influx of some top quality managers like Klopp and Benitez. Secondly we've actually got an owner now who is wealthy and ambitious. This makes us a much more attractive club to manage. I will give you 10% because we've got some good young players which also makes us attractive to come to. For example Lukaku is a top striker and if the new manager can persuade him to stay for another year that's an added attraction but it's a big if at the minute.
Finally I'm not sure he really is a very classy guy. On the plus side there's the stuff with Kendall and the way he handled the Stones bid. On the negative side he always seems to be looking for an excuse which isn't related to him, he's bombed a few players out of the team because of comments/disagreements and claimed they were injured and there's the way he treated Baines. As Ped would say Roberto is all about Roberto and I'm inclined to agree with him.
 
mutley said:
Is that 30 mil every window ?
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Brendan Rodgers spent roughly 300m on players Friend, he was sacked cos he didnt win a bean, despite ALMOST(LOL) winning the League, not quite sure the point.

I mean Wigan likely had a negative net spend when they won the cup, Leicester are currently romping the league after spending less than we spent on Niasse.

They have basically smashed the glass ceiling excuse out the water for every single manager in the league.
 

davek said:
I can't underline this enough: the rules of the game changed fundamentally and these are the new rules. They are not high bar unrealistic targets, they are realistic. Don't meet them? There is the door - get through it. Then we appoint someone else.

Managers getting three seasons without success and spending big cash can't be tolerated.
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I'm not sure if you are in support of Martinez here or not. It's a high stakes game. The more money in the game the more pressure to succeed. Whether you like or dislike this is moot. If Everton aren't ruthless with a manager who is not showing clear signs of progression, the club will start slipping behind.
 
davek said:
"Terrible" - midtable finishes and two cup semi finals do NOT constitute the description "terrible".

This ^^^^ by the way is why I now insist on calling any Martinez successor who has cash to spend a failure if he doesn't get us a CL spot or a cup in his first season.

These standards are with us now, and if people are applying harsh ones to Martinez to get him sacked you can be sure I and others will be holding the next fellers feet to the fire if he falls short having spent ten times more than Roberto.


The new rules are in place and there's no going back now.

Change everton managers quickly from now on until we get a manager who gets success. That is the way forward.
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Still waiting for the club to confirm the date when we parade are 2 semi final cups around, make sure I take the next day off work
:celebrate::pint2:
 
davek said:
On Martinez: that's a moot point as he'd have been spending massively under Moshiri and you'd expect any manager would not fail to add another 15 points onto his season total. Which leads neatly to the new man whomever that may be. That's fine if they get top four with as low a total as mid 60 points. No problem. But whether it takes 65 points or 75 points, they better get them because they won't survive past two seasons if they don't. If the level of spending is as promised they'll get one season bedding in and need to show something for it by the end of the first season by way of a decent points haul - not necessarily top four but 5th or 6th MINIMUM. If they don't they are right under the cosh in their second season and I'd want to see us top 5 by Christmas that second season or I'd push for his dismissal.

I can't underline this enough: the rules of the game changed fundamentally and these are the new rules. They are not high bar unrealistic targets, they are realistic. Don't meet them? There is the door - get through it. Then we appoint someone else.

Managers getting three seasons without success and spending big cash can't be tolerated.
Click to expand...


Pretty sure than prior to Kenwright though mate, you are describing exactly what every Everton manager had worked under the prssure and expectations of though mate ever since the days of Catterick, struggling to remember any Everton manager going 2/3 seasons without getting sacked really after performing badly
 

ianefc said:
And?

Are you telling us that he should keep his job because we beat

Barnsley
Reading
Norwich (pens)
Middlesbrough
Dagenham and Redbridge
Carlisle
Bournemouth
Chelsea

?

If so lollollol have some expectations.
Click to expand...

What are your expectations ? two cup wins and champions league lollollol
 
davek said:
That's a mean spirited analysis of Martinez. I can't be doing with that. Let's just accept that he's our record breaking premier league point making manager and stop being churlish.

The feller put in a blistering first season. End of story.
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Everyone knew he was a poor defensive coach, I'm just surprised it took a year to undo the defensive work Moyes had left behind. Being churlish is to ignore the fact that Martinez's defensive record gets worse the longer he's here and the further he gets from Moyse's team.
 
ianefc said:
And?

Are you telling us that he should keep his job because we beat

Barnsley
Reading
Norwich (pens)
Middlesbrough
Dagenham and Redbridge
Carlisle
Bournemouth
Chelsea

?

If so lollollol have some expectations.
Click to expand...
Laughable isn't it.

Not to mention the fact that we managed to get ourselves into a 2 goal lead in the tie away at City, and then crumpled like a cheap suit - the Martinez trademark
 

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