Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[davek]

Players get older.
Players pick up significantly injuries.
Other teams have more money both for transfer business and salaries.
Other teams improve too

Which one of these would you say are unreasonable?

We brought in youth and inexperience. Average age is now 4 years longer. Sell to buy financial model.

And we want fourth?

Hmmm

Unreal mate.

They have a sniff of a billionaires wallet and start to believe they're entitled to a title and to abuse a good man and manager...who most of them were singing the praises of after his first season.

Zero consistency or credibility. It's appalling.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

With respect though to those who are judging him with heightened expectations, the question remains: what have we done to justify 4th and above? People keep suggesting "Everton, aren't we" but we have been THAT Everton since the late 80s.

Does seem like people are pretending we are City before a penny has even been spent.

People don't want him out because he's not 4th. Champions League football is the aim, rather than the expectation.

Instead he's had us in the bottom half of the table for the second season in a row. If we were around 6th/7th, but looking at challenging for Europe and maybe looking like we could push on there wouldn't be calls for him to be sacked.

 

[The Esk]

On the purely academic point of Martinez being given large sums to spend, it has to be remembered that bringing a player in is a two way process. The player has to have faith in the abilities of the manager, what he'll do for his career, and the likelihood of success.

One of the reasons for Martinez's departure is the lack of faith in his ability to attract the highest talent, and retain existing talent. Such has been the fall out between manager and players this season that there is no confidence he can do this.

Added to the other shortfalls in his managerial capability there is no reason to keep him at a club that has the full intent of succeeding in the future.

 

[mkrudden]

Other teams have more from transfer sales because they have sold their players. We haven't, which makes the lack of progression all the more damning

Genuinely don't understand.
That may be me though rather than how you've demonstrated your point,it's been a long day

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Bullying is bullying. Let's not minimize the abuse Martinez has suffered.

It's Kopite and Geordie behaviour.

In which you're WELL versed mate...

 

[ianefc]

Is it? You said he couldn't replicate his own first season - the man who actually achieved it is "unable" to do it again. Hilarious.

I do admire your optimism about any new manager being a roaring success though. Even with more cash he'll need a ten point start to get near 72 points in one season.

Did Frank Clarke do it again?
Did George Burley do it again?
Did Brendan Rodgers do it again?
Did Mike Walker do it again?
Did John Gregory do it again?
Did David O'Leary do it again?
Did Brian Little do it again?
Did Gianluca Vialli do it again?
Did Ruud Gullit do it again?

 

[blue62]

I don't think Davek is a complete whopper and I also like the fact that someone is providing an alternative view, there is merit in what he is saying but regardless, I personally think the decision on RM has already been taken. Apart from the tedious press conferences, the complete lack of a plan B has been Bobby's biggest failing, at this level that is just not good enough and it would be totally irresponsible of the board to overlook that fact, because it is an absolute FACT.

 

[Ashtonian]

The magically 72 point season replicated would have us in the title race still this season. .

Anywhere near it and we would have champions league football

We have nothing, and are nowhere near it now, nor were we last season either. That's the bottom line of it. The league glad got more competitive, and we aren't competing.

 

[davek]

Not a success, 50 points would be enough for next season, which would achieve us top 7.

He's failed twice, miserably, each season worse than the last Dave.

50 points having spent a kings fortune will get any new manager a kick up the arse. Sorry, the rules have changed. Martinez is now suffering due to the new era of entitlement, his successor will get it worse if they don't get near Martinez's best.

 

[ToffeeTim]

It's a pity we couldn't carry some of those magical 72 points into the next few seasons. Given that in the end we still achieved zilch that season.

 

[Ashtonian]

Genuinely don't understand.
That may be me though rather than how you've demonstrated your point,it's been a long day

You mentioned other clubs getting more from transfer funds which i replied to it saying it's more damming thst we haven't sold our players in that time.

When you have a team together for the majority of 3 years and regress then that is an issue. Age isn't an issue when your first choice midfielder is 35, nor when your first choice striker is 22.

If Martinez has bought poorly though youth and inexperience as you say then again it proves to be a weakness of the manager as the team is going backwards in doing so. As much as bringing young players in us a positive, you have to be at least competing with other teams otherwise it's pointless doing so. Villa heavily invested in youth and inexperience when they were cutting costs for example, and you can now see the end result of doing that. When their experience players left then they had nothing left.

 

[ianefc]

One of the reasons for Martinez's departure.

I adore the past tense nature of your words. I have 100% faith he's gone because of that.

 

[billytoffee]

I don't think Davek is a complete whopper and I also like the fact that someone is providing an alternative view,

If you didn't "think" it then why did you feel the need to tell us that you didn't??

 

[mkrudden]

People don't want him out because he's not 4th. Champions League football is the aim, rather than the expectation.

Instead he's had us in the bottom half of the table for the second season in a row. If we were around 6th/7th, but looking at challenging for Europe and maybe looking like we could push on there wouldn't be calls for him to be sacked.

Agreed mate but I just think there are far more mitigating factors than "he's a bad manager".

Would Jose Mou done a better job? Probably. But this is the same Jose who shows no faith in youth and had a star studded Chelsea side languishing early season. Is he a bad manager? Of course not. Is he better than RM? Of course he is. But Jose has had money to invest in winners. When has Martinez had that?

With the exception of the heralded Leicester, no one gets top 4 or anywhere near without spending buckets. So why would RM be any different?

 

[Saint Domingo]

What is the alternative? From purely a recruitment perspective?

A balanced squad that is able to maintain a minimum level of performance. I'm all for blooding younger players but it can't be used as an excuse for under performance. If that were true the first season would have been a write off. Instead as Barkley Lukaku Stones have got more experienced the performance levels have dropped. It's not just a young player dip, the young players are some of our better players. The issues of consistency and minimum levels of acceptable performance go right throughout the squad which is why I don't accept this myth of the never ending youth project.