Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Huyton Layne]

I love how Martinez is pretty much a Walking Dead zombie.
Everyone's dead scared he's gonna stick around and destroy us all but Moshiri's got his Machete ready and has already picked the exact part of Bobby's fod where the blade will land.
Be calm. Only 3 more meaningless games left.

 

[mkrudden]

Davek had a dream
To troll grandoldteam
He has no friends
So he chats nonsense all the tiiiime

Fifth place three years back
But now we are crap
El fraudo is getting the sack

Doo doo doo, doo doo doo...

Lad?

 

[malfosse]

I will take that under advisement, for the purposes of my point most but the serial pedant will go along with the alleged historical inaccuracy, not to mention the mental picture of davek at the seaside hand palm out, qoing on in the manner of Harry Enfield; Oi! you! tide...NO

Sorry, I feel duty bound to point out the inacurracy, however I will accept your reasoning for this post.
Still wrong though.

Back on topic, Martinez!

 

[mkrudden]

He out performed 16 other premier league teams. Something no other Everton manager in the premier league has done. Low points tally? It means everyone was beating everyone and is an indication of a decent league. The top 6 all finishing with huge points totals just shows that there's a load of dross in the league that every decent side is repeatedly caning.

For the record all those 'weak leagues' that Moyes supposedly operated in had Chelsea under Mourinho, the invincibles Wenger side, United under Ferguson, and then Liverpool under Rafael probably their strongest prem side. How is this a weak league? Not to mention very decent Villa Newcastle Spurs and Leeds sides. In Moyes' period English teams were dominant in Europe as well.

Now you have a far more fluid top order (as seen by Leicester and Spurs cracking it). United are a shadow of themselves repeatedly without champions league, ditto Liverpool, Arsenal are nowhere near their 03-07 team, Chelsea have been awful this season, Coty are a good side but also arguably on the decline. Traditional prem heavyweights like Villa Newcastle and Leeds are nowhere to be seen with most of the sides under West Ham being very average.

How is this league therefore harder? Prem teams have also been woeful in Europe. Whereas once Ronaldo Bale Tevez Rooney Drogba Henry graced the prem, now the only world class player is Aguero. A declining Torres is starting for a side that is in the CL semi final and comfortably better than any team in this country yet in his absolute world beating prime he played for a team who came 4th most seasons.

The league is relatively very weak on quality at the moment. To have a fair amount of that quality in our squad yet not even make the top ten consecutively is an absolute disgrace.

That's just not true. Using any logic.

Look at the table in our CL year:

and this year:

I could drill down further into squad values, squad quality but I've got limited time before work. The point is, it's unquestionable that the PL is stronger and more competitive than its ever been. Stoke are tenth and have Shaqiri, Arnautovic and Bojan up front. Stoke.
What Moyes did was brilliant. You can only beat what's put in front of you, as they say. It isn't however a stick to beat the current manager with. It isn't what we should use to gauge what success is in the near future, not unless we spend big money.

 

[MikeH72]

Only the new rules in your world.

I fully expect whoever comes in next to be utterly hammered at every turn from you.

Not many will take notice tho David.

The vast majority of people gave Martinez almost 3 years, im a fair man, the next Manager will get the same from me.

It's mental isn't it, he's already planned his next move regarding the new manager and will despise him from the off, doesn't matter who it is. We could be challenging for the top 4 and it'll be "well the football is nowhere near as good as it was in Roberto's first season"

Proper weird mentality to have. Many of us just want what's best for Everton, not some loser we've never met like Roberto Martinez

 

[blue62]

If you didn't "think" it then why did you feel the need to tell us that you didn't??

I think he is a whopper, but not a complete one just yet, he still has a little way to go.

 

[degsy]

Nope. I don't support Kenwright I support this managers record on a budget that his successor would never be able to do anything with, least of all get a record making season.

Mark my words, whoever follows Martinez will spend a kings ransom and still not get near the performance and results of his first season here. You can almost guarantee that. And if that comes to pass well see how many are still left calling out this manager as hopeless.

You insist on this no doubt
Nobody is disputing the first season...though what good it did us in the CL scheme of things

I'd be happy if he did it like davy and got us 4th with 64Pts. The points total isn't the be all and end all...of course actually qualifying this time is the real key. which will fill the coffers and help to hopefully kick us on
(talking of kicking on it will be interesting to see what the new champions do in the close season)

So stop blatting on about the 72 Pts all it did was get us into the EL( a mixed blessing )and 5th place prize money

The reason why he is teetering on the brink has much more to do with the last 2 seasons and the unedifying prospect of more of the same

#1st Mar 2015

 

[jceverton]

To follow on from my post earlier comparing Simeone to Martinez.. The man has just got his Atletico side to a second CL final in 3 years.

It shows how quickly a club can transform with the right man in charge. I wouldn't be surprised if Bobby returns to Swansea this summer.

There's another interesting comparison to be made. Simeone was an all out attack manager in the earlier part of his career, a bit Martinez like if you will. The change in his views started when he lost a cup quarter final in 2008 when 2 goals up.

His experience managing Catania in Italy became a defining one. He said of it: “At first I always wanted to attack. With time I learnt the best ways to think how to win is in your defensive balance.”
Unfortunately Martinez shows zero signs of being able to adapt his managerial style despite the outcomes it produces.

 

[Ashtonian]

So martinez best league season would have had us not too far off a title challenge this season.

Moyes best league finish would have still had us potentially finishing in the top 4, despite us doing that 11 years ago on a low points total

There is no defence of the season as a whole, none whatsoever. We have yet again blown a massive chance to get somewhere as a club. And the funny thing is, how close were we in the end?

Bournemouth- 2 (scored in injury time to win it)
chelsea - 2 (same as above)
Norwich -2 (battered them first half, just didn't play the second)
west ham - 3 (was winning for most of game)
stoke- 3 (winning most of game)
palace - 2 (battered them and if we could defend corners, they wouldn't have scored)

points off the top of my head we should have won. That is roughly 59 points we would be on now, win our game in hand and 62 points, not far off and in with a shout of top 4 with 3 to play.

that is the difference, i haven't factored in any game we have outright lost, or meekly drew. I've only factored in games we genuinely had a chance in and it was down to /manager/players that we threw the points away. All ifs and buts so i know if this hadn't happened we wouldn't have a point there etc. Just a general overlook of the season, not re writing it lol

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's mental isn't it, he's already planned his next move regarding the new manager and will despise him from the off, doesn't matter who it is. We could be challenging for the top 4 and it'll be "well the football is nowhere near as good as it was in Roberto's first season"

Proper weird mentality to have. Many of us just want what's best for Everton, not some loser we've never met like Roberto Martinez

It's merely a continuation of his defence of the indefensible. He's trying to alter the narrative by claiming that poor old Roberto is being ousted due to some mythical raising of the bar DURING his tenure.

When the reality is, that the guy has simply failed. Dave doesn't want to face that simple truth.

The new man will be judged based on the level of funding he is provided with and it's got precisely nothing to do with the reason why Martinez is being deemed a failure.

 

[DrEFC]

That's just not true. Using any logic.

Look at the table in our CL year:

View attachment 22227
and this year:
View attachment 22229

I could drill down further into squad values, squad quality but I've got limited time before work. The point is, it's unquestionable that the PL is stronger and more competitive than its ever been. Stoke are tenth and have Shaqiri, Arnautovic and Bojan up front. Stoke.
What Moyes did was brilliant. You can only beat what's put in front of you, as they say. It isn't however a stick to beat the current manager with. It isn't what we should use to gauge what success is in the near future, not unless we spend big money.

You can't seriously say the current Arsenal, United, and Chelsea teams come even close to the quality then. That was the point...

 

[YMJ]

At interview he told us he would get us into the champions league. He didn't.

First season success built on Moyes defence and his attacking attitude. Now the discipline Moyes instilled is gone the attacking attitude is unsustainable.

 

[davek]

The 72 points you keep going on about was a fine achievement but it was a false dawn.Martinez failed.The successor will be judged by the standards set by Mr Harry Catterick and Mr Howard Kendall.Time will tell on how well the successor will do but he won't finish a season with 47 points and surely he will be able to manage a derby win or two.Bobby wasn't much good at the derbies was he?lol

Yes they will. But here's my question: why is Martinez being judged by those standards when Smith and Moyes weren't - managers who nearly had us into the championship?

Answer me that.

 

[bullensboy]

Yes they will. But here's my question: why is Martinez being judged by those standards when Smith and Moyes weren't - managers who nearly had us into the championship?

Answer me that.

Evertonians are realists

Martinez is not a realist in his approach

 

[Ashtonian]

Yes they will. But here's my question: why is Martinez being judged by those standards when Smith and Moyes weren't - managers who nearly had us into the championship?

Answer me that.

They were, that is why we sacked one of them and the other didn't get a new contract.

but to be fair Moyes did manage us without any transfer money for 2 years during the second contract and got a cup final at least out of it.