Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[davek]

It's merely a continuation of his defence of the indefensible. He's trying to alter the narrative by claiming that poor old Roberto is being ousted due to some mythical raising of the bar DURING his tenure.

When the reality is, that the guy has simply failed. Dave doesn't want to face that simple truth.

The new man will be judged based on the level of funding he is provided with and it's got precisely nothing to do with the reason why Martinez is being deemed a failure.

Being deemed a failure by people not fit to judge him.

Our best PL era manager on the only reasonable measure of points amassed in one season.

Two cup semi final runs in one season - best since the 80s.

Two midtable finishes.


In three seasons that is enough to keep his job easily. Any ridiculing of that record reflects more on the critic than Martinez. Something we'll see in the fullness of time when some divvy is hired and given a warchest and blows it.

Tick tock.

 

[Bungle]

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Yes they will. But here's my question: why is Martinez being judged by those standards when Smith and Moyes weren't - managers who nearly had us into the championship?

Answer me that.

Moyes delivered top 6 finishes in 4 of his last 7 seasons - with the lowest placing being 8th.

In his entire 11 full seasons he only delivered a sub 50 point finish - once.

Martinez is on the cusp of delivering 2 on the spin, despite having been provided with a £28m striker, the like of which was Moyes wet dream.

You're desperately trying to create daft out of context comparisons to somehow avoid the painful and simple truth about why Martinez is facing the sack.

He's failed Dave - in the context of the present and the level of resource he's been provided with, he's taken us backwards for 2 successive seasons. There it is, just suck it up lad, and stop trying to spin it into something it isn't.

 

[peteblue]

I don't understand the mad clamour for him to be sacked NOW... Why? What is the benefit?

The club are likely going to handle it quietly and with a degree of class and empathy for a man who deserves it. I don't want him to stay after this season but I don't see the point of sacking him right now.

I agree, but if he had been sacked immediately after the RS game we may still be looking forward to a cup final......

 

[Ashtonian]

Being deemed a failure by people not fit to judge him.

Our best PL era manager on the only reasonable measure of points amassed in one season.

Two cup semi final runs in one season - best since the 80s.

Two midtable finishes.


In three seasons that is enough to keep his job easily. Any ridiculing of that record reflects more on the critic than Martinez. Something we'll see in the fullness of time when some divvy is hired and given a warchest and blows it.

Tick tock.

Ok mate.

So if a new manager comes in, signs good players and beats 72 points, or wins us something, will you admit then you are wrong about martinez?

By all your benchmarks in your head, if a new manager (who you believe will fail) actually surpasses them, surely in that instance you will come out and hold your hands up to it?

i mean after a season of defending a manager pretty much 90% of the fan base want gone, it would be hypercritical if you suddenly started praising the next manager after insisting you want to keep martinez, no?

 

[davek]

You insist on this no doubt
Nobody is disputing the first season...though what good it did us in the CL scheme of things

I'd be happy if he did it like davy and got us 4th with 64Pts. The points total isn't the be all and end all...of course actually qualifying this time is the real key. which will fill the coffers and help to hopefully kick us on
(talking of kicking on it will be interesting to see what the new champions do in the close season)

So stop blatting on about the 72 Pts all it did was get us into the EL( a mixed blessing )and 5th place prize money

The reason why he is teetering on the brink has much more to do with the last 2 seasons and the unedifying prospect of more of the same

#1st Mar 2015

The next manager will be judged by the same brutal yardstick applied to Martinez, a manager who has spent only a fraction of what that successor will be spending.

That is entirely reasonable. He need to get success right off the bat or he's under the cosh and out on his ear by end of season two....or before.

 

[Sentinel]

Any manager of Everton Football club should be judged against our historic record of winning titles and trophies. That's why Moyes and ultimately Martinez and others before them will be judged as failures. That's what we should expect of any manager of our club.

As supporters we should expect or demand that. We're Everton, we're not Watford or Southhampton or even Leicester for that matter who've just won it for the first time. We have form, tradition, history, I'm not prepared to bin those aspirations or the staff and players who built that legacy on hard graft, just because we've had it tough and haven't won anything in twenty years, irrespective of the reasons behind it. I'll never, never embrace the peoples club mentality.

Talk and act like a small club you become one. We should all welcome the return of pressure, targets, accountability for failure. There absolutely should be a raising of the bar. How else do you achieve success without it? A pat on the back for finishing fourth or fifth. Sorry it's nowhere and always will be. The bar at Everton should always be winning the league. If you want a return to those days I suggest a rethink on what you consider is good enough for Everton.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Being deemed a failure by people not fit to judge him.

Our best PL era manager on the only reasonable measure of points amassed in one season.

Two cup semi final runs in one season - best since the 80s.

Two midtable finishes.


In three seasons that is enough to keep his job easily. Any ridiculing of that record reflects more on the critic than Martinez. Something we'll see in the fullness of time when some divvy is hired and given a warchest and blows it.

Tick tock.

You mean match going Evertonians?

And as for the second highlighted sentence - it patently isn't, hence the reason the board have decided to can him and 93% of the fanbase want him gone. Try and dress it up all you like and continue insulting the intelligence of match going Blues if you wish, but just like Martinez has done - you'll fail.

 

[davek]

Ok mate.

So if a new manager comes in, signs good players and beats 72 points, or wins us something, will you admit then you are wrong about martinez?

By all your benchmarks in your head, if a new manager (who you believe will fail) actually surpasses them, surely in that instance you will come out and hold your hands up to it?

i mean after a season of defending a manager pretty much 90% of the fan base want gone, it would be hypercritical if you suddenly started praising the next manager after insisting you want to keep martinez, no?

Why would it make me wrong about Martinez when he proved conclusively with 72 points on a smaller budget than any replacement that he was up to the task of getting Everton challenging for a CL place?

The first season he had here is an inconvenient truth for his critics. Hence the reason they attempt to ridicule it. Sorry, but it will stand the test of time and be used as a measuring point for ALL incoming managers in the near future.

 

[Saint Domingo]

That's just not true. Using any logic.

Look at the table in our CL year:

View attachment 22227
and this year:
View attachment 22229

I could drill down further into squad values, squad quality but I've got limited time before work. The point is, it's unquestionable that the PL is stronger and more competitive than its ever been. Stoke are tenth and have Shaqiri, Arnautovic and Bojan up front. Stoke.
What Moyes did was brilliant. You can only beat what's put in front of you, as they say. It isn't however a stick to beat the current manager with. It isn't what we should use to gauge what success is in the near future, not unless we spend big money.

Sorry I don't agree, and any squad value comparison would be massively skewed by the inflation of transfer fees.

My previous post on this said it all from my point of view. I just don't buy this argument that 11th is ok because we currently have a very hard league of high quality full of decent sides. Plus the other side to this that a decade ago this wasn't the case so fourth was somehow easier. I don't buy it but we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The next manager will be judged by the same brutal yardstick applied to Martinez, a manager who has spent only a fraction of what that successor will be spending.

That is entirely reasonable. He need to get success right off the bat or he's under the cosh and out on his ear by end of season two....or before.

You mean not taking us backwards and delivering 2 successive bottom half league placings? Brutal that like lol

Quite rightly so.

Next........

 

[davek]

You mean match going Evertonians?

And as for the second highlighted sentence - it patently isn't, hence the reason the board have decided to can him and 93% of the fanbase want him gone. Try and dress it up all you like and continue insulting the intelligence of match going Blues if you wish, but just like Martinez has done - you'll fail.

Match going blues means what exactly? They have some magical insight? Standing holding a bed sheet is not proof of football intelligence really is it?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Match going blues means what exactly? They have some magical insight? Standing holding a bed sheet is not proof of football intelligence really is it?

You said he was being judged by people who supposedly had 'no right' in your World to judge him

He's being judged by match going Evertonians, and 93% of the fanbase according to this poll and many others like it.

So are we all unfit to pass judgement on his tenure?

 

[Viennablue]

Probably already been said a million times, but…


In my opinion the club should have issued a statement shortly/2-3 days after the semi-final defeat. It should have stated that RM will be leaving Everton at the end of the season (compensation agreed), thanking him for his work over the last 3 years, and stating that EFC are currently in the process of searching for a new manager to take the club forward.


This would have pleased the fans, stopped all protests, and actually would have probably also eased the pressure on RM/the players. There would have been a much better/more positive atmosphere for the final 4 matches with fans knowing the end of RM was near, and the players might have actually upped their game knowing the new manager could well be watching. Plus RM, although massively out of his depth, seems like a decent guy and doesn’t deserve the abuse. I know he’s paid handsomely and has made a lot of bad decisions, but if he’s going anyway there’s no need to get personal/nasty.


I know we beat a Bournemouth side who, like us, had nothing to play for but it wasn’t a good performance. They had more chances and we could have quite easily lost the game. We may also beat a Leicester side off the back of a 5 day drinking session. To clarify the situation (with the statement mentioned above) would make things easier/better on and off the field in my opinion.


I know some clubs are too reactive (e.g. Man City sacking Mancini after the cup final defeat to Wigan with just 2 league games left. What’s the point!?), but I think EFC are far too unreactive. It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if BK and FM hadn’t actually made a final decision yet, and are waiting to see how the last 3 games go. I think if it was still just BK we’d still see RM in a job next season, but FM gives me some hope. If he’s going to be putting anything more than 20mil into the club for transfers this summer (more than any of the other directors have ever put in) he’ll have the say on the person who gets to spend it.


What I really want is EFC/FM to go out and aim for the stars. Start with Jose/Diego, and if they say no move down from there. I want to hear/read stories about top managers rejecting us. Not plucky little EFC going for Sean Dyce or Eddie Howe, who they no they can get, and know wont publicly reject them. I also think BK should be kept away from the hiring process. He’s great at selling EFC to the British media, but I think would just come across as a bit weird/old-fashioned to top European coaches. Stories of the 80s and dogs of war side of the 90s won’t cut any dice with anyone who matters in 2016.


In short: a potentially big summer coming up. Fast action and clear decision making is needed. Basically everything Everton haven’t done for years. COYB!

 

[peteblue]

Any manager of Everton Football club should be judged against our historic record of winning titles and trophies. That's why Moyes and ultimately Martinez and others before them will be judged as failures. That's what we should expect of any manager of our club.

As supporters we should expect or demand that. We're Everton, we're not Watford or Southhampton or even Leicester for that matter who've just won it for the first time. We have form, tradition, history, I'm not prepared to bin those aspirations or the staff and players who built that legacy on hard graft, just because we've had it tough and haven't won anything in twenty years, irrespective of the reasons behind it. I'll never, never embrace the peoples club mentality.

Talk and act like a small club you become one. We should all welcome the return of pressure, targets, accountability for failure. There absolutely should be a raising of the bar. How else do you achieve success without it? A pat on the back for finishing fourth or fifth. Sorry it's nowhere and always will be. The bar at Everton should always be winning the league. If you want a return to those days I suggest a rethink on what you consider is good enough for Everton.

Spot on. People happy with 4th.... Coming 4th used to get the manager the sack........