Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[The Mighty Quint]

We've still got a great squad you know, Martinez has just destroyed all the confidence and belief for them, they clearly have downed tools, up until about February we were still one of the best sides going forward in the league, but it gets a bit wearing when you score 2 or 3 goals and still lose or draw because Martinez won't sort the defence out.

We were sick of it, the players got sick of it.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Tantrum maybe, but not lobby for his head with protests. There is a massive hypocrisy at play here and the reason behind it is Moshiris cash in the background and the sense of entitlement and impatience for change it brings to some.

lol

There was plenty of Blues calling time on his tenure way before Moshiri arrived, it was widely discussed that the LC SF took the heat off him, but many wanted him gone then.

He's being judged on what he's delivered in 2 seasons, and what people can see with their own eyes, and it's become largely complete pap, hence the gathering of momentum amongst the fanbase

If he'd have been doing a good job then the fanbase would be excited about the prospect of him having a potentially massive budget to work with this summer, not wanting him canned. Your narrative is therefore completely bogus.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Next season the cups will be deemed important again by all....you just know it.

Yes they will -while we're in them, and not at the expense of league position.

It's not, and never has been, a case of either/or. Martinez might think it is, we don't.

 

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Why would it make me wrong about Martinez when he proved conclusively with 72 points on a smaller budget than any replacement that he was up to the task of getting Everton challenging for a CL place?

The first season he had here is an inconvenient truth for his critics. Hence the reason they attempt to ridicule it. Sorry, but it will stand the test of time and be used as a measuring point for ALL incoming managers in the near future.

It's also a measuring point for the current manager too Dave not just the next one.

In his first season he got us fifth and 72 points, ok, that's the standard.

Has he maintained those standards? No. We've regressed and badly for two consecutive seasons now from the standards both he set in his first season, and the standards of the previous manager he took over from.

So for that he unreservedly deserves the sack.

Agree Dave?

 

[The Esk]

There is a massive hypocrisy at play here and the reason behind it is Moshiris cash in the background and the sense of entitlement and impatience for change it brings to some

Actually it is the recognition that an ambitious owner will not allow this opportunity in terms of timing and resources available to be wasted. The fear amongst most Evertonians is that the wasted opportunities of the last two years will continue, resulting in the breaking up of a promising squad with genuine talent and prospects, the inability to attract leading talent despite the resources being available for the first time in a generation, more deterioration in our competitive position relative to our peers, and the prospects of another season of the soulless, shapeless, incomprehensible playing style of the last few months.

David France put it very clearly when he said we have a final opportunity to make ourselves relevant again as a big football club able to compete domestically and in Europe. If we miss this chance we in all probability will never get another one again.

That's the fear, permanent irrelevance, in a football environment more competitive and demanding than ever. Moshiri is not investing his own millions to allow that to happen. Hence Martinez not being "fit for purpose" and the requirement for the most suitable and qualified candidate to replace him.

You don't need to be an expert to understand that.

 

[billytoffee]

We've still got a great squad you know, Martinez has just destroyed all the confidence and belief for them, they clearly have downed tools, up until about February we were still one of the best sides going forward in the league, but it gets a bit wearing when you score 2 or 3 goals and still lose or draw because Martinez won't sort the defence out.

We were sick of it, the players got sick of it.

Apparently only some of us are sick of it and we are probably not even qualified to judge it that way. You need to wait for someone with the correct qualifications to TELL YOU that you are sick of it.

Meanwhile there is at least one person who must have enjoyed it as he is desperate for more of the same - phenomonal !

 

[blueboy1945]

Hahaha! 'Industry experts'. L.O.L.

The likes of who? Tom Cannon? Or Mark Lawrenson?

No mate, I think he means himself of course!

 

[Sentinel]

So for that he unreservedly deserves the sack.

He does deserve the sack but the counterpoint to that is, would he get the sack under Kenwright?

The supporters want him sacked and in my opinion quite right, personally I wanted Moyes sacked many times. Kenwright however would be sticking by him. We'd be facing another year of this.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

A trophy is fine by me. It has and always will be more important than top four....of course it wasn't this season because Martinez threatened to get us one, and that was a horrifying prospect to his critics. Next season the cups will be deemed important again by all....you just know it.

I don't think anyone's ever said the cups aren't important. Obviously they are.

However they are not sufficient reason to overlook the manager's woeful inadequacies.

We beat one decent (if you want to call this season's Chelsea "decent") in the two cup runs, and lost to the only other two decent sides we came up against.

The other sides we beat included such footballing luminaries as:

Dagenham and Redbridge
Carlisle
Barnsley
Reading
Bournemouth
Middlesbrough
Norwich (who we needed a shootout to get past at home)

Everyone wanted to win a cup. It would probably even have been enough to save the manager (whether it SHOULD have been is another matter).

But in his self professed "defining week of the season" he singularly failed. An utter humiliation in the Derby followed by a very familiar feeling loss in the semi final.

But then you knew all that, and I'm sure even believe it yourself. So I'd better leave you to your favourite pastime of winding up fellow blues.

 

[DrEFC]

Being deemed a failure by people not fit to judge him.

Our best PL era manager on the only reasonable measure of points amassed in one season.

Two cup semi final runs in one season - best since the 80s.

Two midtable finishes.


In three seasons that is enough to keep his job easily. Any ridiculing of that record reflects more on the critic than Martinez. Something we'll see in the fullness of time when some divvy is hired and given a warchest and blows it.

Tick tock.

 

[degsy]

The next manager will be judged by the same brutal yardstick applied to Martinez, a manager who has spent only a fraction of what that successor will be spending.

That is entirely reasonable. He need to get success right off the bat or he's under the cosh and out on his ear by end of season two....or before.

So what does he have to do?
Get us 5th?
or
Get us 72Pts?
nobody complained about Martinez and nobody would complain about the new guy either.

What we had in 2013-14 was an improvement

like I stated previously It's not just about the first season

What we have after 3 years is Us going backwards or if we manage 10th or 11th on 40 something points - standing still ( a far cry from the 60+ you were touting some months back!
my opinion is that the Board won't want to take a chance on a third season of poor football or they may even just think that 'X' is a better fit for us than Martinez

davek - GOT's Leo Sayer

Well I'm a one man band
Nobody knows nor understands
Is there anybody out there want to lend me a hand
With my one man band

 

[JAYMULL]

We've still got a great squad you know, Martinez has just destroyed all the confidence and belief for them, they clearly have downed tools, up until about February we were still one of the best sides going forward in the league, but it gets a bit wearing when you score 2 or 3 goals and still lose or draw because Martinez won't sort the defence out.

We were sick of it, the players got sick of it.

I think you've got it spot on here. When we lost to West Ham that was the last time we played well, since that game it's been awful. In your post for me you have stated the reason why he must go

 

[ijjysmith]

Happy May 4th GOT

 

[DrEFC]

No mate.
I'm saying that from 6th down on the 2005/06 table have been replaced by clubs with far better squads with far bigger transfer kittys due the huge rise in income.
It's never been more competitive.

Why are Spurs and Leicester in the top 4? Why when we were best of the rest have sunk like a stone. Do Leicester/Spurs/West Ham/Liverpool et al have better squads? Or better managers?

 

[MikeH72]

It's merely a continuation of his defence of the indefensible. He's trying to alter the narrative by claiming that poor old Roberto is being ousted due to some mythical raising of the bar DURING his tenure.

When the reality is, that the guy has simply failed. Dave doesn't want to face that simple truth.

The new man will be judged based on the level of funding he is provided with and it's got precisely nothing to do with the reason why Martinez is being deemed a failure.

He can't bring himself to admit that the bar was actually raised during Moyes' tenure. He had us 5th/6th/7th regularly, compared to consistently bottom half in the years before. Martinez met that standard in his first season, and has miserably failed in the two since. And before he starts going on about cup semi finals, we reached plenty of those in the Moyes years too, even a final actually. So in fact, Moyes raised expectations and Martinez is lowering them swiftly again by having us believe midtable and semi final cup exits is success. All while spending more than his predecessor ever did. Abysmal manager, in short.