Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

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His record as a Prem manager is absolutely awful, I don't credit him with those 72 points he got in his first season, it's clear as day he was caretaker over a Moyes team who had defended well and attacked well for the previous 3 seasons, it was a great team Moyes left him with.

But for the sake of argument, to get an average lets take away his best and worst seasons with us and Wigan and look at what's left, a steaming pile of you know what for 5 of the 7 seasons.

He has had the time and proved himself to be a flawed Prem manager, every stat you look at tells you this, his record can not be defended, it just can't, a bad Prem manager is what he is.
 
mikeh72 said:
He can't bring himself to admit that the bar was actually raised during Moyes' tenure. He had us 5th/6th/7th regularly, compared to consistently bottom half in the years before. Martinez met that standard in his first season, and has miserably failed in the two since. And before he starts going on about cup semi finals, we reached plenty of those in the Moyes years too, even a final actually. So in fact, Moyes raised expectations and Martinez is lowering them swiftly again by having us believe midtable and semi final cup exits is success. All while spending more than his predecessor ever did. Abysmal manager, in short.
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Indeed.

Moyes continually massively out performed his budgets, and yet got little or no respect for it from some.

Now in a desperate attempt to justify Martinez failure, it's; but look at his budget - he's only 2 places behind it....

Swinging and missing, and still no mention of the derby :coffee:
 
JAYMULL said:
I think you've got it spot on here. When we lost to West Ham that was the last time we played well, since that game it's been awful. In your post for me you have stated the reason why he must go;)
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I think you can point at the West Ham game, we bossed them with 10 men easily, only time we've played decent since is against Chelski in the Cup.

The West Ham game was when he makes those ridiculous subs that handed the game to them after all that work 10 men did to be 2-0, after that the players have never played the same for him.
 

Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Indeed.

Moyes continually massively out performed his budgets, and yet got little or no respect for it from some.

Now in a desperate attempt to justify Martinez failure, it's; but look at his budget - he's only 2 places behind it....

Swinging and missing, and still no mention of the derby :coffee:
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I still find that hilarious, he's genuinely pretending it didn't happen isn't he. No wonder he went missing for 2 weeks
 
davek said:
Tantrum maybe, but not lobby for his head with protests. There is a massive hypocrisy at play here and the reason behind it is Moshiris cash in the background and the sense of entitlement and impatience for change it brings to some.
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I think that's fair, but I do remember a lot of distasteful stuff with the justification being he's not Catterick/Kendall and 6th wasn't good enough.

The key issue for me with Martinez though is would he have been appointed had Moshiri have taken over 3 years ago? He had an ok track record but in all honesty I find it hard to believe that Moyes/Smith/Martinez would have been appointed by Moshiri if he is as serious about Everton as we are led to believe. The above appointments are reflective of the narrow minded parochialism that underpinned the Kenwright approach and that you don't look beyond Lancashire for your future managers.

In many ways it is unfair that he doesn't get to spend the money. I do understand that but he'd never done enough to get appointed by a Chairman who's ambition lay much beyond Kenwrights.

At present we still await to see what Moshiri's vision is. My hope is that in the summer we punt most of what Everton has become under Kenwright. Rightly or wrongly Martinez is a part of that and the idiots suggesting we get Moyes back or Hughes (albeit not Evertonian but idiots in the media like Richard Keys) need to be shown once and for all that Everton are not just another Stoke. I think a lot of the anger now shown towards Martinez is in many ways the anger that is felt towards the old regime and what it has allowed Everton to become. Unfortunately he has become a totem for that, in a similar way to what Moyes did.

It could well be a sense of entitlement. I think though, after 15 years people have had enough, and unfortunately as part of that process people will be washed away alongside it. I don't hate Martinez and I think he has done ok, had Moshiri not come in I can't honestly say I'd be calling for him to go, I'd probably be defending him. However I just want a change and I think for a clean break to happen we need to start again and rid the club of the inertia that existed beforehand.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Indeed.

Moyes continually massively out performed his budgets, and yet got little or no respect for it from some.

Now in a desperate attempt to justify Martinez failure, it's; but look at his budget - he's only 2 places behind it....

Swinging and missing, and still no mention of the derby :coffee:
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You cant really put Moyes and derby in the same post and use it as a post to praise Moyes!
 
I don't think he's lost the dressing room, per se. He's just a mediocre manager - any of us would find it tough to get fired up by him. Bring in Bielsa in the summer and give him some money. He's the sort of manager that could have us doing a Leicester/Spurs.
 

Papa Shango said:
You cant really put Moyes and derby in the same post and use it as a post to praise Moyes!
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What Martinez served up at Castle Greyskull last month was way, way beyond anything that Moyes ever delivered in derbies. It was the most gutless, shameful, shambolic Everton 'performance' that I can ever remember - in 35 years of watching them.

...and I wasn't praising Moyes for his derby performances btw......but you knew that ;)
 
The Mighty Quint said:
His record as a Prem manager is absolutely awful, I don't credit him with those 72 points he got in his first season, it's clear as day he was caretaker over a Moyes team who had defended well and attacked well for the previous 3 seasons, it was a great team Moyes left him with.

But for the sake of argument, to get an average lets take away his best and worst seasons with us and Wigan and look at what's left, a steaming pile of you know what for 5 of the 7 seasons.

He has had the time and proved himself to be a flawed Prem manager, every stat you look at tells you this, his record can not be defended, it just can't, a bad Prem manager is what he is.
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For the millionth time Moyes team did NOT defend well! Not when it ever mattered.

Also he left the squad with no useable strikers and yes it was a decent squad but it was also ageing. The players that served him so well were all getting on a bit and there were glaring holes in certain areas (some have been filled, some still have not).

Martinez had a much bigger job on his hands than some people realized at the time. Hes not done very well with it to be fair but lets not pretend it was going to be a cakewalk for him either. History is littered with managers coming into jobs where the past manager had been there for years and failed. Hell, Moyes did it himself at United!
 

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