Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Lanolin]

What points exactly? Ive explained them all

Yes you've explained them, but they still don't stand up to scrutiny. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

You made the point that Moyes didn't trust 'young' defenders - not 'inexperienced' you'll note - and i've provided you with examples of young players who he clearly trusted in defence. The fact that you've now tried to move the goal posts by talking about experience is by the by.

You also tried to use the example of a patently not good enough centre half (sorry @Mikey_Fitzgerald) not being used to prove that Moyes wouldn't have played Stones. I've pointed out both that Martinez gave absolutely no opportunities whatsoever to Duffy, and that Martinez appears to trust Stones but not Pennington or Holgate which suggests your logic is flawed.

Finally you've tried to suggest that Moyes doesn't deserve any credit for signing Stones as it was all down to his scout. Aside from the fact that the only actual 'evidence' of this is the word of the scout himself, you're leaving out the fact that Moyes still sanctioned the purchase, and have admitted that you believe Moyes did actually go to watch him a few times. So, in other words, it was exactly the same as every purchase ever made by any club.

I'm all for bashing Moyes for certain things, but I think sometimes people let their opinion of him get in the way of the facts, and this was one of them.

 

[Elong]

Remember when this place used to laugh at Twitter and almost considered adding it to the Untrustworthy Sources?

Now everyone loses their crap over it.

Sake guys, turn it in.

 

[mightymoyes]

I'm not sure that's true.

He made Hibbert his first choice right back when he was 21, and paid big money for a 21 year old Yobo and Baines when he was 22. Even Lescott was only 23 when he signed, and plenty of people are telling me now that Mori is still too young to be trusted at 25.

Trying to suggest that the signing of Stones was all down to a scout and nothing to do with Moyes is an embarrassing level of pettiness. It's standard practice to have a trusted scout doing the donkey work, and the idea of managers being the ones who unearth players themselves is laughable. Do you think Roberto just happened to be taking in a few games in the Uruguayan league when he stumbled across Leandro? Or saw Matty Foulds on his weekly pilgrimage to watch Bury under 18s?

I don't think Stones would have played quite as many games at centre half under Moyes, but I don't necessarily think that would have been a bad thing. We'll never know what would have happened, but the fact that Moyes didn't pitch the likes of Shane Duffy, Peter Clarke, and Mark Hughes in is hardly evidence that he wouldn't have played an England centre half that he'd paid decent money for. After all, Martinez has used him, but would rather play Tony Hibbert at left back than Luke Garbutt, and picks Besic at right back ahead of Pennington, Holgate or Connolly.

it took him a year to shift a centre back from the left back position under moyes though!

 

[Titus Bramble]

it took him a year to shift a centre back from the left back position under moyes though!

In fairness Lescott bossed it at left back

 

[joey_macmo]

it took him a year to shift a centre back from the left back position under moyes though!

Because Lescott was excellent there and Baines played 29 games that season, he was hardly frozen out.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Just seen a little clip of the presser and wow he looks gone, can just tell something isn't right

His body language gave it away - he looked nervous and very uncomfortable. And judging by his response to the questions on summer plans, it was obvious that he will be on his way at the end of the season.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Also if I remember correctly, Baines had claimed the left back spot but pulled his hammy just as he was starting to get a run of games?

Sorry, off topic. Martinez out etc

 

[Lanolin]

it took him a year to shift a centre back from the left back position under moyes though!

29 games in his first season. More than Stones played in either of the previous 2 seasons. This is the first time he'll have played more than that.

 

[Bungle]

Just seen a little clip of the presser and wow he looks gone, can just tell something isn't right

Sounds mad but he was actually talking about the plans for summer and how he has already started planning with the club for the next transfer window,

To be fair he did say how he has already started planning for the next transfer window

In what way? Does he not say they have already started planning?

Your head is an absolute mess mate, I've put in a request for you to be banned from any threads relating to incoming and outgoing managers.

It's for your own good.

 

[billytoffee]

Your head is an absolute mess mate, I've put in a request for you to be banned from any threads relating to incoming and outgoing managers.

It's for your own good.

Aahh!! this is more like the GOT we all know and love - the sort of care in the "virtual" community aspects.

Very heart warming and good to see!

 

[MikeH72]

Remember when this place used to laugh at Twitter and almost considered adding it to the Untrustworthy Sources?

Now everyone loses their crap over it.

Sake guys, turn it in.

I'll never ever trust Twitter again after 'Futbol Ukraine-gate' in the summer

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

There was a certain sadness about today's presser I thought.

Felt a bit sorry for him TBH, resigned to his fate almost, his speech patterning giving clear indications of that...

Awwwwwww....

Anyway, that said....OUT.

 

[bluestevon]

Very clear reference to "as a football club". No use of first person singular or possessive adjective.

As you said a very 'impersonel' response, from my take on it the body language he exhibits when talking about it being clear where the club wants to get, and never stop pushing to where we want to get is telling.

Almost seemed like he was explaining the reason for him leaving at the end of the season - at least it will look that way in hindsight in a few weeks time

 

[sageyefc]

Yes you've explained them, but they still don't stand up to scrutiny. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

You made the point that Moyes didn't trust 'young' defenders - not 'inexperienced' you'll note - and i've provided you with examples of young players who he clearly trusted in defence. The fact that you've now tried to move the goal posts by talking about experience is by the by.

You also tried to use the example of a patently not good enough centre half (sorry @Mikey_Fitzgerald) not being used to prove that Moyes wouldn't have played Stones. I've pointed out both that Martinez gave absolutely no opportunities whatsoever to Duffy, and that Martinez appears to trust Stones but not Pennington or Holgate which suggests your logic is flawed.

Finally you've tried to suggest that Moyes doesn't deserve any credit for signing Stones as it was all down to his scout. Aside from the fact that the only actual 'evidence' of this is the word of the scout himself, you're leaving out the fact that Moyes still sanctioned the purchase, and have admitted that you believe Moyes did actually go to watch him a few times. So, in other words, it was exactly the same as every purchase ever made by any club.

I'm all for bashing Moyes for certain things, but I think sometimes people let their opinion of him get in the way of the facts, and this was one of them.

Its hardly by the by when they all had several seasons under their belts previously, its hardly the same as trusting 18-19 year olds who's played a handful of times at a low level.

Pennington has spent last season out on loan and this year when he was needed was brought in no problem. Holgate had a spell out injured but either way hes never been needed so far. And duffy was our best performer in his few games before being jibbed off by moyes. Granted bobby never give him much of a look in but the writing was on the wall then


And you are mistaken, i have given moyes credit for getting John, but i was marely arguing against some acting like it was purely him who plucked him from nowhere when its the scout that deserves the credit

 

[Ashtonian]

There was a certain sadness about today's presser I thought.

Felt a bit sorry for him TBH, resigned to his fate almost, his speech patterning giving clear indications of that...

Awwwwwww....

Anyway, that said....OUT.

I mentioned it earlier, would it be business like and it turned out to be just that. Just tow the line, say the generic answers and then leave. Exactly the mark of a manager who is finishing his time here.

Of course he touched on being here because the official line is he is our manager, so until the club announce otherwise then he will give generic responses along those lines.

Granted it is still highly silly of the club to do this as the fans are going to protest and boo him but they know what they are doing better than me at least.