Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I guess we are banking on the likes of Galloway and Holgate coming to fruition to see if he has been successful in that area. The initial signs with Galloway were very good.

Galloway was £4m mate. Alli was £5m from the same club.....

Just saying.

Even if both do end up being great, is that it like? Hardly a stockpile that...which was my point.

 

[John Osters Love Child]

Progression simply isn't occurring if results are poor, so it's not harder to decipher it's simply not happening.

In fact what's happening is an obvious regression, therein lies the issue.

Lukaku and Stones were always going to be top drawer. He might have helped them in some ways, but in others he's done the opposite. Stones for example needed a size 10 up his hoop for overplaying and not knowing when to hit row Z.

Exactly! Lukaku has been granted game time by Martinez that's all. As you say he's top drawer and we've gifted him the game time to show it and play through poor form whereas a team like Chelsea would haven benched him after 2 poor performances. Can't praise the manager for constantly playing our record signing week in week out, especially when the alternative is Kone.

 

[joey_macmo]

No but we wouldn't have scored as many goals as we have this season.

The PL has improved dramatically since Moyes left us. I personally don't think we would have been able to stay top 7 with his method of transfer business ie, buy proven, decent players. I think RM recognised this which is why he turned to youth and fund stockpiling.

The top 5 is nowhere near the level of what it used to be

 

[Thomasc]

Galloway was £4m mate. Alli was £5m from the same club.....

Just saying.

Even if both do end up being great, is that it like? Hardly a stockpile that...which was my point.

yep fair point

 

[orly]

Bad buys. No escaping that.
What about Barry, Deu, Lukaku, Robles, Funes Mori?

Er....?

Blimey, if these were good buys we are in the really deepest stuff.

Have a look at the goals conceded, games won, points gained with Robles in the team. Anyone-but-Howard filters on the Evertonian vision here.

And Funes Mori is basically a mistake-a-game player. Arsenal home, Liverpool away, West Brom away etc etc

First three - I'll definitely go along with

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Progression implies moving forward in all areas.

When in fact the majority of areas we have moved backwards

 

[mkrudden]

Barry? Nope
Niasse? Nope
McGeady? Nope
Funes Mori? Nope
Lennon? Nope
McCarthy? Nope
Kone?

£28m Lukaku aside where is this stockpile of youth gems?

Stockpiled transfer kitty, not players.

 

[Petit]

I want Martinez out as much as anyone, but I'm reminded of Everton being poor not only under Martinez but also during David Moyes tenure.

 

[mkrudden]

Are you saying he is directly responsible for turning those players into what they are and no other manager could have done so?

Also - Barkley appears to be going backwards under Martinez!

Of course I'm not mate. He has undoubtedly contributed though.
And Barkley didn't play before RM got here. how has he gone backwards?

 

[mkrudden]

I want Martinez out as much as anyone, but I'm reminded of Everton being poor not only under Martinez but also during David Moyes tenure.

He got patience because we had no money.
Nothing changed!

 

[mkrudden]

The top 5 is nowhere near the level of what it used to be

But the rest is far better. That's 15 teams all considerably better.

 

[orly]

Stockpiled transfer kitty, not players.

He stockpiled cash to spend on Naisse?

£13.5m is about 15% of the money he's spent, maybe more. £19.5m of it on Naisse + Kone. £32.5m of it on Naisse, Kone, McCarthy.

He has had money. He had a solid squad he inherited. He's now left us with a few talented but woefully out of form and fitness players, a lot of crocks who he has had 5 windows to shift and hasn't, and a squad with absolutely no fighting spirit.

 

[mkrudden]

He stockpiled cash to spend on Naisse?

£13.5m is about 15% of the money he's spent, maybe more. £19.5m of it on Naisse + Kone. £32.5m of it on Naisse, Kone, McCarthy.

He has had money. He had a solid squad he inherited. He's now left us with a few talented but woefully out of form and fitness players, a lot of crocks who he has had 5 windows to shift and hasn't, and a squad with absolutely no fighting spirit.

But it's Lukaku who cost multiple players worth and he has generated probably 30mil profit. That's fantastic management.

McCarthy will regain form, I have faith.

Didn't Kone cost 5mil? Same with FM strictly.

So he stockpiled for McCarthy, Lukaku and Niasse really?

2/3 isn't bad at all.

 

[Smodger]

Has the ball bag gone yet.

 

[Azza]

Progression is harder to see when results are poor. There is no doubt from a league standing we haven't maintained the heights.
I just think the previous financial model meant he had to buy/develop youngsters to generate funding for better players.

He has turned Lukaku into a 60mil striker, Stones 40+. If Mosh wasn't here, he'd be expected to sell those players and then reinvest. It's a different method to moyes who would almost guarantee top 8 but no more.

Now he is going to have money to buy quality to supplement all the good work he has done with infrastructure and developing younger players.

That's progression, to me anyway.

Progression simply isn't occurring if results are poor, so it's not harder to decipher it's simply not happening.

In fact what's happening is an obvious regression, therein lies the issue.

Lukaku and Stones were always going to be top drawer. He might have helped them in some ways, but in others he's done the opposite. Stones for example needed a size 10 up his hoop for overplaying and not knowing when to hit row Z.

Exactly! Lukaku has been granted game time by Martinez that's all. As you say he's top drawer and we've gifted him the game time to show it and play through poor form whereas a team like Chelsea would haven benched him after 2 poor performances. Can't praise the manager for constantly playing our record signing week in week out, especially when the alternative is Kone.

As the above are saying he really hasn't turned Lukaku into a £60m striker. Lukaku banged 17 goals in for WBA under Steve Clarke. The lad will give you double figures without fail even if he has no supply. This is nothing to do with Martinez.

Moyes brought in John Stones and I'm sure would have given him just as much time as Martinez has. Martinez certainly hasn't developed Stones in doing his job as a defender. All he's done is told him to keep hold of the ball more and pass he's told it's right to.