Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

whiteshadow · March 13, 2016

Whistlin' Dixie said:
No, I'm not implying anything. I'm openly saying it.

RM said the players don't perform at home, and the reason was he felt the fans made it uncomfortable for the players.

This sentiment was, in turn, echoed/amplified by certain posters on here; who have used it as an opportunity to excuse the shortcomings of RM's management & tactics, and point the finger elsewhere - when their other reasoning/excuses for poor form has been cross-examined and countered.

Fickle, and kneejerk aren't terms that have been used by the anti-martinez posters (Or 'plotters' as they're affectionately known). It wasn't the martinez out brigade blaming the fans, was it? Nor are the (main protagonists of the) pro-martinez openly lauding yesterday's support.

They'll be back in their droves with their 'fickles' and 'kneejerks' the second anyone complains about the next loss, though...

What RM said is totally different to what anyone has posted on here. No one on here has said the main reason we struggle at home is because of poor support, they've said poor support doesn't help the players, which is totally different from saying it's the main reason.

Find me a post of someone saying that if you can, as it is you're just twisting peoples words and correlating them with something RM said.

Deco · March 13, 2016

davek said:
I've said all season and right from the off that in a developmental season (which this is) a good season looks like this: extensive cup run plus good top half finish (with an ambition of 60 points). Obviously 60 points is very doubtful now, but a decent top half finish can still be secured, and I would argue that extensive runs in both domestic cups can make up for the failure to hit the 60 point mark.

There has to be a recalibration of the judgements of our season after last night. To keep on calling it a season where we underachieved is moronic.

12th is underachieving for sure, no doubt about it. However if we can win the cup and finish 8th I'd be very happy.

Can we keep our best players with that though?

chicoazul · March 13, 2016

Darth Vader said:
Just checked, It doesn't

Look, I am your father.

oldblue · March 13, 2016

whiteshadow said:
All about fine margins in football and you need luck on your side sometimes, often regardless of wether you've set the team up well or not.

You can imagine the metldown on here if Costa had scored and we'd gone on to lose, despite RM getting praise today. That's why I try to judge him on how he's set the team up, did he gives us the best 'chance' of winning. Sometimes you need luck on your side.

Exactly and enjoy it when it happens. And when the luck doesn't go with us that's when the support needs to be louder

davek · March 13, 2016

Tubey said:
It's not though, because we've underachieved. We're 12th FFS, how is that a success for a squad like this?

You could ask absolutely anyone at Everton and they'd say it's been a disappointing season themselves.

12th with two games in hand that can propel us to 7th/8th.

Let's see where we finish up before declaring this season in the same light as last season...which it patently isn't anyway given the cup performances.

Whistlin' Dixie · March 13, 2016

whiteshadow said:
Find me a post of someone saying that if you can, as it is you're just twisting peoples words and correlating them with something RM said.

Sod off & look for them yerself.

There's enough of them in this thread, plus the match threads. I'm not doing your legwork, tyvm.

Tony1985 · March 13, 2016

davek said:
I've said all season and right from the off that in a developmental season (which this is) a good season looks like this: extensive cup run plus good top half finish (with an ambition of 60 points). Obviously 60 points is very doubtful now, but a decent top half finish can still be secured, and I would argue that extensive runs in both domestic cups can make up for the failure to hit the 60 point mark.

There has to be a recalibration of the judgements of our season after last night. To keep on calling it a season where we underachieved is moronic.

Mate, don't want to burst your bubble but getting to semi finals of cups or a cup run as you put it means absolutely nothing unless you win it, so it doesn't really make up for anything unless we win it.

Granted he's put us in a good position to do that so let's hope he can get us there.

davek · March 13, 2016

Whistlin' Dixie said:
To who? You?

'cos it ain't to most. It doesn't even reach 'acceptable' , nevermind 'far more than acceptable'.

You speak for yourself only mate. Same as I do.

You're kidding yourself if you think an Everton manager with his league best and cup form is anything like underachieving...dont believe me? Go and check the trophy cabinet at Goodison.

davek · March 13, 2016

Tony1985 said:
Mate, don't want to burst your bubble but getting to semi finals of cups or a cup run as you put it means absolutely nothing unless you win it, so it doesn't really make up for anything unless we win it.

Granted he's put us in a good position to do that so let's hope he can get us there.

For you.

D'you think it meant nothing for every Evertonian at the final whistle last night?

I'm amazed how any Everton fan can minimize cup runs into the semi finals like we get to them every season. Well we dont.

Whistlin' Dixie · March 13, 2016

davek said:
You speak for yourself only mate. Same as I do.

You're kidding yourself if you think an Everton manager with his league best and cup form is anything like underachieving...dont believe me? Go and check the trophy cabinet at Goodison.

Check the trophy cabinet? What for, dave? A semi final trophy or two? o_O

And what's 'league best' ,pray tell?

davek · March 13, 2016

Deco said:
12th is underachieving for sure, no doubt about it. However if we can win the cup and finish 8th I'd be very happy.

Can we keep our best players with that though?

Your're more likely to keep them with the man who brought them in still being there than not.

oldblue · March 13, 2016

whiteshadow said:
The fans at home haven't been blamed for RM's shortcomings, the only thing posters on here have accused them of is not always getting behind the team in some games where it might have helped lift the players.

I've never seen a poster claim the sole reason we lose at home is due to poor support, which is what you're implying.

One poster who claimed I was blaming the fans when saying the atmosphere was crucial yesterday then went on to pretty much say his support was conditional on the manager deploying tactics he completely agreed with. And there's obviously those whose support is conditional on Mirallas playing.
All the time they talk about 'the fans' to fans, who presumably are not allowed to state what they think would help.
Clearly by 'fans' they mean 'me and anyone who likes my posts'.

davek · March 13, 2016

Whistlin' Dixie said:
Check the trophy cabinet? What for, dave? A semi final trophy or two?

And what's 'league best' ,pray tell?

No, ANY trophy. Point is - how can you be blase about cup runs of this nature this season when we have won nada, nowt, zilch, nought, nothing for 21 years?

The Reverand · March 13, 2016

chicoazul said:
How much is a taxi to Wembley?

You paying mate?

He still needs to go , league results not good enough for a squad of this ability. One result or even winning the fa cup will change my opinion.

Whistlin' Dixie · March 13, 2016

davek said:
No, ANY trophy. Point is - how can you be blase about cup runs of this nature this season when we have won nada, nowt, zilch, nought, nothing for 21 years?

And I don't harp on about any of those 21 years being progress like you do about martinez

And, FYI we haven't won anything THIS season.