Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

LAToffee · January 28, 2016

Prevenger17 said:
Not really. Watching us this season, it feels like we've been tantalisingly close to something great. It's very different to last season in that regard, though the results have been the same. If it gets to the end of the season and our players are still throwing away leads and unable to go a whole game without committing basic, fatal errors, we'd have to take a look at Martinez' position.

Right now, he looks like a man unable to capitalise on the talent he has assembled, but I'm willing to give him a decent chance to put that right.

I'm more negative than you to the degree that I'm now becoming seriously concerned he can't get it right and won't bring in someone who can help with the defense, but I do get the "tantalizingly close" and "unable to capitalize on the talent" observations. So frustrating: close but no cig...good.

hktoffee · January 28, 2016

Prevenger17 said:
Not really. Watching us this season, it feels like we've been tantalisingly close to something great. It's very different to last season in that regard, though the results have been the same. If it gets to the end of the season and our players are still throwing away leads and unable to go a whole game without committing basic, fatal errors, we'd have to take a look at Martinez' position.

Right now, he looks like a man unable to capitalise on the talent he has assembled, but I'm willing to give him a decent chance to put that right.

Understandable. What I fear is next season will be the same. Lots of promise and potential but never fulfilled. Like I said, his future will be based on where we finish in the league this season.

arbok · January 28, 2016

LAToffee said:
Eddie Howe! That is hilarious. Swapping one "championship" manager (your implication) for another. No knock on Eddie Howe, but let's see him survive a couple of seasons in the premier league and see him win something before you embrace him as the next Everton manager. I get the disillusionment and the hurt the night after a defeat in A SEMI FINAL, but get a grip lads. If you are going to suggest replacements, lets have realistic and "tried and tested" alternatives. Wanting to throw out one manager because he's not "premier league" standard and suggesting we place him with one who has spent less than a season in that league doesn't sound very well thought out.

Of all the "realistic" choices in the prem right now who would come to Everton, Eddie Howe would be the preferred choice. Do you guys really want Allardyce? Pulis? Do you think Mark Hughes, Raineri, Koeman or Bilic wants to come to Everton? Howe would be a gamble but none more so than the other guys I've mentioned. And I don't want Moyes back. Seriously though, there isn't very much choice when you're talking proven premier league managers.

Also I said the same thing after the horror show on the weekend, so its not just after last night's game. In fact I haven't watched it yet (and probably don't plan to either).

LAToffee · January 28, 2016

Cork Evertonian said:
I can indeed when you are stuck in mid table.

You can, but you need to acknowledge he actually assembled and fostered those resources: In other words, he didn't walk into the dressing room and find all this talent there. Nor have other managers with lots more money to burn discovered this kind of talent. It's not black and white: he's actually made a serious contribution to the club AT THE SAME TIME as he's shown that he is currently unable to make the machine he has assembled produce results. I'm really really unhappy with our inability to defend leads and our results. I realize it's a results game. But I can also a lot of potential. (Getting less and less certain that he can realize it mind you)

LAToffee · January 28, 2016

arbok said:
Of all the "realistic" choices in the prem right now who would come to Everton, Eddie Howe would be the preferred choice. Do you guys really want Allardyce? Pulis? Do you think Mark Hughes, Raineri, Koeman or Bilic wants to come to Everton? Howe would be a gamble but none more so than the other guys I've mentioned. And I don't want Moyes back. Seriously though, there isn't very much choice when you're talking proven premier league managers.

Also I said the same thing after the horror show on the weekend, so its not just after last night's game. In fact I haven't watched it yet (and probably don't plan to either).

Unlike you, I don't want him sacked.

BigDuncis Blue · January 28, 2016

ijjysmith said:
Is correct I think. There's nobody to sack him.

Thats what some would have you beleive. He can be sacked. Like with Moyes our board dont do that sort of thing, Thats why they are just to blame as much as RM

GwladysBlue · January 28, 2016

kithnou said:
Smith? Really? Big call.

Smith didn't have players of this standard and never had the luxury of spending £28m on when player.

Don't get me wrong, Smith was dire, but can we really say this is much better?

We can't make direct comparisons in terms of position, so the situations have to be looked at differently.

I'm looking at a squad that regularly finished in the Top Six, now not having been in the top half for over 18 months.

GwladysBlue · January 28, 2016

LAToffee said:
Besic, Del, and Mori were hardly household names. While there had been some buzz around Stones and Barkley, they really establish their reputations while playing for him. I think it would be interesting to compare the valuation of Martinez's squad now with their value at the point of purchase. I think a paradox is that though his team is underperforming, the value of the team is going through the roof. Indeed, this is leading to these attacks where the squad he has fostered and assembled is the very thing that he is getting attacked with. For instance, he buys Lukaka for 28 million (?) and remember how many people laughed and said we had overpaid. What do you reckon we could get for Lukaku in the summer? Mori doesn't look like we overpaid either.

There was a huge buzz around Deulofeu also. If I remember rightly, Spurs were in for him but Barça thought he would get more playing time with us.

Besic and Mori are good signings, but he's hardly played Besic, has he?

I understand what you're saying, but bringing them in/through or not, he is simply not getting the best out of them.

Shagster · January 28, 2016

LAToffee said:
Let's see where we are at the end of the season. End of. Fume on like. But I'd imagine the smart stocktaking by the club and by most fans will happen in may. We just got knocked out of a semi final. We didn't play great, but we weren't exactly hammered either. Wasn't a great performance, but it was hardly gutless. Performance wise: I'm much more worried by losing at home to Swansea. I'm annoyed and angry like most on here, but I'm also able to recognize how he has made some good contributions/acquisitions. Our defending is beyond shambolic though.

What makes you think that will change under this manager?

arbok · January 28, 2016

LAToffee said:
Unlike you, I don't want him sacked.

Under Bobby Everton do play some great football. Even as recently as the Chelsea game, Everton were 2-0 and cruising after 70 minutes. But it can't be just bad luck they keep letting goals in, even if a lot of them are penalties/deflected shots. That's just down to the system/playing style/confidence of players. When Everton played Leicester, there was only one disciplined team on the pitch and it wasn't Everton. Leicester were dire and they still scored 3 goals.

So Bobby should fix it and if he doesn't he should go at the end of the season.

LAToffee · January 28, 2016

arbok said:
Under Bobby Everton do play some great football. Even as recently as the Chelsea game, Everton were 2-0 and cruising after 70 minutes. But it can't be just bad luck they keep letting goals in, even if a lot of them are penalties/deflected shots. That's just down to the system/playing style/confidence of players. When Everton played Leicester, there was only one disciplined team on the pitch and it wasn't Everton. Leicester were dire and they still scored 3 goals.

So Bobby should fix it and if he doesn't he should go at the end of the season.

Agree with everything you say there

ijjysmith · January 28, 2016

BigDuncis Blue said:
Thats what some would have you beleive. He can be sacked. Like with Moyes our board dont do that sort of thing, Thats why they are just to blame as much as RM

Who would sack him?

neil999 · January 28, 2016

sacking is a gamble, we could end up like tottenham..we could end up like Newcastle

one thing, where money is not exatly plentiful Martinez big money signings have been fantastic

jazzy · January 28, 2016

The manager has proved time and time again that he cannot coach a team to defend properly and is not prepared to change his "philosophy".

Let him stay in charge till the end of the season , scrape to 40 points and then get rid.

There will be several top quality managers available and eager to take the end of the job then.

LAToffee · January 28, 2016

Shagster said:
What makes you think that will change under this manager?

I'm getting less and less confident it will. Did think we seemed to get some steel around the Spurs game. Besic has been a huge loss. Other managers have learned slowly that they need to get personnel into work on defense. Wenger did it. Like I said, I am not confident. We are not going down this season. I'm wait til the end of the season and see where we are. Don't tend to believe in sacking managers after tough defeats or mid season. If it was October and we were 17th, I'd probably say he should go. We're twelfth. The summer gives the club time to decide on his future.