Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Saint Domingo]

Last night somewhat shattered this absolute myth that Martinez was some trophy genius because he won the FA cup and we were in a semi. 'On the cusp of a trophy' 'Favourites for the cup' 'name on the trophy'. The reality of beating top sides over two legs is very different, and just like Arsenal away in 13/14 and Kiev last season we've once again been outclassed when it comes to the latter stages of a competition just like we so often were under Moyes.

When discussing Martinez objectively, can we therefore stop this utter myth of 'he can do what he wants in the league because we're winning a cup'. He might win the FA cup, but at the moment half the teams in the prem can say that. Getting to a cup semi was never an excuse to abandon the league campaign but it was gleefully accepted by too many excusing mediocrity to protect the myth of Martinez's infallibility. Now the league cup is gone we are left hoping to win the FA cup to save our season which is a stupid place to be in.

 

[MikeH72]

He can go on about the controversial goal all he wants, the fact of the matter is we let a real live dwarf score a header to put us out

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Last night somewhat shattered this absolute myth that Martinez was some trophy genius because he won the FA cup and we were in a semi. 'On the cusp of a trophy' 'Favourites for the cup' 'name on the trophy'. The reality of beating top sides over two legs is very different, and just like Arsenal away in 13/14 and Kiev last season we've once again been outclassed when it comes to the latter stages of a competition just like we so often were under Moyes.

When discussing Martinez objectively, can we therefore stop this utter myth of 'he can do what he wants in the league because we're winning a cup'. He might win the FA cup, but at the moment half the teams in the prem can say that. Getting to a cup semi was never an excuse to abandon the league campaign but it was gleefully accepted by too many excusing mediocrity to protect the myth of Martinez's infallibility. Now the league cup is gone we are left hoping to win the FA cup to save our season which is a stupid place to be in.

That post really does sum everything up for me.Im still open minded about Martinez until the end of the season but there's no doubt that the most enthusiastic of Robertos fanboys are starting to run out of oxygen and clasp for air now.

 

[Groucho]

Some of us mods have just been saying, we don't think we've ever seen it as high as 74% out before.

 

[Groucho]

Smith didn't have players of this standard and never had the luxury of spending £28m on when player.

Don't get me wrong, Smith was dire, but can we really say this is much better?

We can't make direct comparisons in terms of position, so the situations have to be looked at differently.

I'm looking at a squad that regularly finished in the Top Six, now not having been in the top half for over 18 months.

I see what you mean, in part at least. Smith was turgid, but Smith had turgid players mostly.

We've got very good players currently. How we are 12th? I'll leave that up to you to debate.

 

[counsillor cox]

Right, so, Deulofeu is on the pitch, Manuel decides hes nothing left to offer, but Kone might have. Struggling with this bit.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

Now's not the time to sack him.
Just like we're seeing with top players to middle tier clubs in the premier league, the money will result in top coaches wanting to come and work in England also.
Let him finish the season – and if we are still this bad, then he gets sacked.
Then bring in a top coach.
Yes we'll lose Lukaku and Stones, but we'll also get 80 million for them.

 

[Shagster]

I'm getting less and less confident it will. Did think we seemed to get some steel around the Spurs game. Besic has been a huge loss. Other managers have learned slowly that they need to get personnel into work on defense. Wenger did it. Like I said, I am not confident. We are not going down this season. I'm wait til the end of the season and see where we are. Don't tend to believe in sacking managers after tough defeats or mid season. If it was October and we were 17th, I'd probably say he should go. We're twelfth. The summer gives the club time to decide on his future.

I agree with Besic and perhaps super Kev being very untimely injuries and it is not just on last night's game.

We seem to be getting into a habit of playing this waiting game 'for things to turn around' I'm not sure if that's a pragmatic steely resolve amongst fans; or they are bewitched by the Martinez factor and focus solely on the positives. I think a few of the players fall under this spell which leads to the systemic failings on show. Apart from some like Kev who see through it perhaps.

 

[GwladysBlue]

I see what you mean, in part at least. Smith was turgid, but Smith had turgid players mostly.

We've got very good players currently. How we are 12th? I'll leave that up to you to debate.

It's just so frustrating.

I don't think anyone could envisage it panning out this way after his first season. Maybe we were all naive, his defensive recklessness was there for all to see in his Wigan days.

No matter how bad we are, a bad season for a club like Everton should be around 9th place. He looks to be guiding us to back-to-back bottom half finishes.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

To be honest i agree with the people that say that Martinez has been a worse manager than Walter Smith.The target under Smith was to keep our heads above water and we achieved that.Our target under Martinez is champions league/Europa League qualification and trohpies and we are failing dismally to fulfill those targets.Martinez has a much superior squad of players to work with as well compared to what we had under Walter Smith.In terms of failing to get the most out of the playing resources you can put forward an argument that Roberto Martinez has been our worst manager in our modern history.

 

[caught]

We were beaten by a better team last night so, despite the frustration, it hasn't made any real difference. If I thought for a moment that a) Martinez would be sacked right now and b) we'd be able to bring in a better manager, perhaps my opinion would change. As it is, assessing the situation at the end of the season makes the most sense to me. We're not going to be relegated.

Three full years in a role is enough time to iron out the negatives that come along with trying to build something worthwhile. If we're without a trophy and in the bottom half of the table come May I'd sack him.

 

[Lee Smith]

I've personally run out of patience with him and want him gone now, but I doubt that's going to happen, he'll more than likely still be here come the end of the season. And the only way I'll change my opinion of him by then, is if he manages to somehow, by the end of the season :

- gets us up to at least 7th in the league
- a good FA Cup run (semi at least)
- get a couple of decent away wins in the league against the 'big' teams, and Liverpool
- gets the team defending properly

Unless he does all of that, my opinion isn't going to change. We're capable of all the above, it's time for him to get it done

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Voted 'out' for the second time yesterday. First time I did was after last seasons home defeat against Stoke. Changed my mind and vote that time around. No chance of that happening now. Martinez is not the manager that will take us forward as a club. Get rid at the end of the season.

 

[ijjysmith]

We were beaten by a better team last night so, despite the frustration, it hasn't made any real difference. If I thought for a moment that a) Martinez would be sacked right now and b) we'd be able to bring in a better manager, perhaps my opinion would change. As it is, assessing the situation at the end of the season makes the most sense to me. We're not going to be relegated.

Three full years in a role is enough time to iron out the negatives that come along with trying to build something worthwhile. If we're without a trophy and in the bottom half of the table come May I'd sack him.

As much as I'm wavering right now I tend to agree with this.

A mid season change could do more harm than good. Plus I really think he won't be sacked as I can't see who would do it. Plus the extra cost and a lot of possible new managers not being gettable right now.

For any new man coming in there would be a hell of a lot to change. The mental way we play for a start. Been drilled in for 2 and a half years. Hard to get out of it.

Not even sure he'd go in the summer either.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Last night somewhat shattered this absolute myth that Martinez was some trophy genius because he won the FA cup and we were in a semi. 'On the cusp of a trophy' 'Favourites for the cup' 'name on the trophy'. The reality of beating top sides over two legs is very different, and just like Arsenal away in 13/14 and Kiev last season we've once again been outclassed when it comes to the latter stages of a competition just like we so often were under Moyes.

When discussing Martinez objectively, can we therefore stop this utter myth of 'he can do what he wants in the league because we're winning a cup'. He might win the FA cup, but at the moment half the teams in the prem can say that. Getting to a cup semi was never an excuse to abandon the league campaign but it was gleefully accepted by too many excusing mediocrity to protect the myth of Martinez's infallibility. Now the league cup is gone we are left hoping to win the FA cup to save our season which is a stupid place to be in.

Been arguing that for the last couple of days - the caveat of "winning the Capital one Cup" was getting put in front of me all the time. my reply was its a big IF. its a distraction which was a missive long shot and it surely highlights to those people that the league form is horrific.

I shudder to think what Goodison is going to be like the next few matches.