Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[roydo]

I've had enough, I was verging on the same opinion at the end of last season

I can vouch for this. @The Esk told me watching the Spurs match, last home game, last season.

 

[kenada_blue]

And theres the crux.

When Martinez came in, Spurs were our rivals, we pushed them for most of the season, now Spurs are challenging for the title, have CL football under their belt and we are challenging Villa and no mark French teams for the worst home record in the world.

Theres no progress, no level of improvement, only decline, a descent into darkness and theres only 1 man to blame currently, Bill did all he could, the utter fraud was given more money than ANY Everton manager in history and instead of improving us, hes actually made us worse.

No more Fortress Goodison, God I bet teams look forward to visiting Goodison and have it pencilled in as an away banker these days.

Its not good enough, not in a season when Leicester will win the Title with a worse squad than us, not in a season when the worst liverpool team in history will finish above us.

NSNO, we can ignore it for 1 season, in the search for progress, but when progress isnt made, changes have to happen.

Spurs and Leicester will both have CL football, and all the Leicester players who were binned by their previous clubs will have that shiny gold premier league badge on their shirts next season.

We'll be neck and neck with Watford, Palace and West Brom.

 

[toffee matt]

He brings a lot of good to the table to be fair to him

It's honestly just the defence that let's him down

We attack well, he gives youth a chance for the most part and he gets stuff out of veterans like Barry that I didn't think possible

It's for that reason that I'm prepared to stick with him, but he HAS to sort that defence

I live in hope that he'll get that defensive coach, and if he doesn't after a certain point I probably will join the "Out" brigade, but I'm not ready yet.

Do you really believe simply hiring a coach could solve our problems?

I wish it could but the problems seem much more deep rooted.

Somethings rotten atm in my opinion

 

[bluestevon]

He brings a lot of good to the table to be fair to him

It's honestly just the defence that let's him down

We attack well, he gives youth a chance for the most part and he gets stuff out of veterans like Barry that I didn't think possible

It's for that reason that I'm prepared to stick with him, but he HAS to sort that defence

I live in hope that he'll get that defensive coach, and if he doesn't after a certain point I probably will join the "Out" brigade, but I'm not ready yet.

Honest question mate, if he had the personality of a Moyes, Pardew etc would we still be trying to make every possible excuse or give him chance after chance like we have done, honestly can say his personality and seeming to get Everton and be a boss bloke kept me fence sitting far longer than i should have been, the writing was on the wall last season but we accepted the flim flan from him...

He won't sort the defence out mate, he will just buy another couple of defenders - and start rotating when one set of players gets battered too often, can't sort out a defence when you haven't got a clue what a defence should be about

 

[ijjysmith]

It's not only about 90 minutes of football Dave, it's also about what happens in the week between games.

What sort of preparation went into sending a team onto the pitch that was in such a mentally fragile state that they could not perform to any acceptable standard. What sort of tactical preparation went into this weekend's game?

If ever there was an opportunity to provide momentum going into the rest of the season it was yesterday, yet there was the exact opposite.

I've had enough, I was verging on the same opinion at the end of last season, yet gave him the benefit of the doubt, and again on several occasions this season.

With all the goodwill in the world, and I know he operates with the best of intent, but I will put it plainly, Martinez does not have the skill set to get the best out of this group of players nor build a club capable of competing in the top 4 or 6 of this league.

That's not mass hysteria, nor am I stamping my feet in the frustration of false expectation. It is the cold truth: Martinez is not good enough, he does not have the necessary skills.

I came here to type something similar but not as good.

Esk, would winning the cup (which I see as unlikely but not impossible) sway your opinion at all? I'm leaning on even winning the cup won't win me round.

 

[Goat]

Do you really believe simply hiring a coach could solve our problems?

I wish it could but the problems seem much more deep rooted.

Somethings rotten atm in my opinion

Indeed, its rotten at its core.

We changed keepers, we changed the defence, the loser spirit is encrusted in our players and the only way to get rid of it is to cut off the head of the snake, then burn its body.

 

[ianefc]

I held on, in blind hope, I wanted to believe so much, I think it stems mostly from how vocal I was prior to him taking over, I foretold all that is happening and I honestly never wanted to be right, ive never wanted to be more wrong in my whole life.

His first season, im convinced it was a different manager, the football we played, the tactics employed, I dont see it from this man, this man just chats utter pony and loses football games meekly, this isnt a man I can support, this isnt a man that gets to ride with me, this is a man I will destroy.

Go get em champ, you have to go for @davek though, he is the centrepiece in a house of cards that is facing an incoming storm, you can take them out now, although the metaphorical storm (our woeful form) will do it for us.

Teamplot.

 

[The Esk]

I came here to type something similar but not as good.

Esk, would winning the cup (which I see as unlikely but not impossible) sway your opinion at all? I'm leaning on even winning the cup won't win me round.

No mate, it wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Just think lads, even if he does win us the FA cup that means we'll be in the Europa league next season.

And last time we were in it it affected our league form so much we dropped down 6 places.

Better hope to god we finish 11th or higher this season otherwise this time next year we will be in a "phenomonal moment of staring relegation in the face".

Whilst Danny Murphy tells everyone how entertaining we are on MOTD.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Do you really believe simply hiring a coach could solve our problems?

I wish it could but the problems seem much more deep rooted.

Somethings rotten atm in my opinion

I think it would because it would turn things around on the field and give the defenders someone who will actually get them defending properly again

Once we start racking up wins again, everything will turn. Morale will be better both in the dressing room and in the stands

We might have to sacrifice some of the attacking flair, but if we're winning 2-0 every week as opposed to losing 3-2 thrillers, I don't think anyone will mind, save maybe Dave

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Honest question mate, if he had the personality of a Moyes, Pardew etc would we still be trying to make every possible excuse or give him chance after chance like we have done, honestly can say his personality and seeming to get Everton and be a boss bloke kept me fence sitting far longer than i should have been, the writing was on the wall last season but we accepted the flim flan from him...

He won't sort the defence out mate, he will just buy another couple of defenders - and start rotating when one set of players gets battered too often, can't sort out a defence when you haven't got a clue what a defence should be about

The Cup run has definately won him some brownie points with me

If we were in the same position in the League and gone out the cups at the first round, I probably wouldn't be as willing to cut him some slack

 

[Little Ralphy]

The Cup run has definately won him some brownie points with me

If we were in the same position in the League and gone out the cups at the first round, I probably wouldn't be as willing to cut him some slack

Like last season you mean?

 

[Goat]

After Wigan beat us at Goodison I prayed they didnt win that cup and when that ginger sub scored at Wembley I knew he would get the job, I think a part of me died that day, I spent a month praying a team I didnt support failed to win a trophy, I wonder how many fans are now praying we dont?

Just saying.

 

[davek]

It's not only about 90 minutes of football Dave, it's also about what happens in the week between games.

What sort of preparation went into sending a team onto the pitch that was in such a mentally fragile state that they could not perform to any acceptable standard. What sort of tactical preparation went into this weekend's game?

If ever there was an opportunity to provide momentum going into the rest of the season it was yesterday, yet there was the exact opposite.

I've had enough, I was verging on the same opinion at the end of last season, yet gave him the benefit of the doubt, and again on several occasions this season.

With all the goodwill in the world, and I know he operates with the best of intent, but I will put it plainly, Martinez does not have the skill set to get the best out of this group of players nor build a club capable of competing in the top 4 or 6 of this league.

That's not mass hysteria, nor am I stamping my feet in the frustration of false expectation. It is the cold truth: Martinez is not good enough, he does not have the necessary skills.

We were playing Arsenal not Accrington Stanley. They had one shot left to keep alive their season, so let's not forget the other side of the equation here. Yes, the performance was insipid and that goes down to Martinez as well as the players. But that match was atypical of the way we have played for the most part this season. It's no use using that particular 90 minutes to suggest a general malaise which isn't there. Personally, I felt the occasion had an 'after the lord Mayor's parade' build up to it and we were flat as an organisation going into it. Unsupportable as that is from professionals.

You say he's not got the skill set to get the best from the group of players. That doesn't quite scan, imo. He can get it from them but not with consistency. But they are his players and he can get them playing, as anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this season. My view is that he'll get that consistency, but he'll also need to sort out some personnel changes in defence. A new GK, yes. But also we need to revert to a much flatter back four which could see both FBs shifted out the club or from their starting positions at least.

Bottom line for me: it continues to be a huge stretch to believe that what Martinez has done is worthy of dismiaal. Anyone advocating it has an ahistorical view of the club and how we've previously operated (a temperate tradition worth maintaining), and they have a shaky grasp of what's required to move us on.

 

[paulbefc]

@davek @sageyefc @paulbefc @Prevenger17 @MoutsGoat @ilikecheese @Roberto's Dream

In the words of Bjorge Lillelien,

''Your boys took one hell of a beating''

*sits back, bookmarks everything and waits to see what happens in the cup*