Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[roydo]

if he had a good defence then there would be no debate

He has though. Thats what I struggle with.

 

[Goat]

Now at 491 to 1013.

So, since the post I'm quoting, that's a net change of

In : 17 ( 8.2% )
Out : 190 ( 91.8% )

This probably knocks the idea of resetting the poll changing the results in the favour of the manager.

@MoutsGoat
@davek

Well ive just changed from the fence to OUT.

Before people start, no matter what ive said and as many times as ive called him El Coco, ive never wanted him sacked and never voted it in any poll. This is the first time ive entered the OUT camp fully, its not kneejerk based on 1 game or 1 season, its 18months of coming away from Goodison feeling depressed, watching us throw away leads and watching as we slide down the table.

Last Season we didnt get past the first round of the domestic cups and got dicked the first time we played a decent side, bar Wolfsburg in the dead rubber league.

The game against Chelsea and the home defeat of City are highlights in an overall 18months of utter abject failure.

I havent take this decision lightly and its a real shame its come to this, I gave the utter clown ample time to change, but its just in him, hes simply not good enough to be a Premier League Manager and should go back to the lower leagues where his tactical know how or should I say know not will mean he might be able to fluke a few home wins in League One.

So goodbye El Coco, thanks for your first season, but ive rang a Delta and its on its way, in a bit lad.

 

[davek]

Moyes finished 5th x 2 and 4th X1 and also finished 6th x2.

He was also robbed of 5th place due to an inept referee ruling out James Vaughan's last minute winning goal at Chelsea on the final game of the season for nothing.

You can't argue one point and then completely ignore another.

Your whole argument is based on one season, which was two years ago that is the anomaly throughout his entire career.

Never got near Martinez's total...and he did it with his team he left behind.

Moyes was a dullard manager. He's underlined how limited he is by going to big clubs and not winning a bean and getting tin tacked.

 

[lancs blue]

I don't want Martinez to change his ways and his philosophy. He tries to win games, he attacks and goes for it. Being born in the 90s, the majority of Everton I've watched has been under Moyes which is why I'm comparing them. Every game we play, I'm confident we can win, we can go and score goals. Under Moyes that was never the case, even when he had a good squad in his last few years.

The Europa League last season was great, the toughest group of the tournament and we pissed it. Battered Wolfsburg, who are CL quarter finalists now, home and away. Kiev was a nightmare where they scored two wonder goals that sent them through.

And the potential you're talking about.. look at the difference between Lukaku and Barkley between now and Martinez's first season, huge difference. Stones has also improved, Deulofeu aswell. Martinez isn't perfect as if he had a good defence then there would be no debate, let's just hope that he sorts what needs to be sorting out in the summer if he stays.

Hes lost the majorityof fans though. Will take a huge trnaround of epic proportions. An fa cup win will not resolve issues I feel.The ones who still support him, in some cases, resort to abuse as they know they have lost the battle. Yes players have improved but results have not. Begs the question is he a better coach than manager?

 

[eternal_defiance]

This forum will lose a comedy element once Martinez gets the boot.

 

[TommyDavo]

QUOTE="Roberto's Dream, post: 4312438, member: 25343"]I don't want Martinez to change his ways and his philosophy. He tries to win games, he attacks and goes for it. Being born in the 90s, the majority of Everton I've watched has been under Moyes which is why I'm comparing them. Every game we play, I'm confident we can win, we can go and score goals. Under Moyes that was never the case, even when he had a good squad in his last few years.

The Europa League last season was great, the toughest group of the tournament and we pissed it. Battered Wolfsburg, who are CL quarter finalists now, home and away. Kiev was a nightmare where they scored two wonder goals that sent them through.

And the potential you're talking about.. look at the difference between Lukaku and Barkley between now and Martinez's first season, huge difference. Stones has also improved, Deulofeu aswell. Martinez isn't perfect as if he had a good defence then there would be no debate, let's just hope that he sorts what needs to be sorting out in the summer if he stays.[/QUOTE]
So our teenagers have improved as they've moved into their early 20's and that's down to Bobby, behave

 

[Kendall's Dream]

Your username is apt - as you're believing in a pipe dream rather than a reality.

Haha, made it in his first season and regretted it since. I am a fan though, username or not.

 

[davek]

were they. My mistake if that's true I take it all back.

Is there anyone from the world of football journalism/punditry who you would accept criticism of Martinez from? Just so I know.

You're missing the point. They are pretty much all scum without a clue or principle. The point I was making was that there is no industry led convulsion against martinez, not that the odd toe rag hack doesn't have a go at him...they have a go at everyone.

 

[Ashtonian]

There is an absolute torrent of trash being claimed about and against Martinez right now. It's amusing that it mostly goes awol after a decent win like

When we get one of those rare wins do you not think that some posters aren't going to criticise the manager and actually just spend a bit of time enjoying their club win instead? At the end of the day I have wanted Martinez out for over 12 months and have been very vocal about that , but I'm not coming on here to complain after a win when that's all I want from my team.

If the team bottles it a week later for example and tactically we are awful then I have every right, as does anyone else of not being happy with that.

 

[deipnosophist]

Oh good find.
So lets do this properly then.
How much did he get to spend?

I've got to smile at the way that when someone presents you evidence you asked for, you then shift the goal post of the original discussion. This is a trait common to fundamentalists, zealots... and cultists

 

[billycopper]

So you subscribe to the view that Moyes left his defence behind (all apart from Distin still here, btw in this 'failing' defence) and that Martinez left it as it was and reaped the benefits, rather than rip up the play book at the back and encourage those players to play in a fundamentally different manner: playing it out and carrying it forward? It's funny, but IIRC almost everyone at the time recognised that the defence was playing in a vastly different manner than it had previously.

I just laugh mow when I read the re-writing of history over this defence issue. "It was Moyes' defensive wall that provided the basis". You couldn't make this stuff up.

There is an absolute torrent of trash being claimed about and against Martinez right now. It's amusing that it mostly goes awol after a decent win like.

nevermind. The hysteria will fade again soon and we'll be back to where we were.

I remember a couple of 6-0 spankings under Moyes. If we were getting well-beaten every week I'd hold my hands up but very few sides have got the better of us and when they have a £50m player has tended to be the difference.

 

[roydo]

Never got near Martinez's total...and he did it with his team he left behind.

Moyes was a dullard manager. He's underlined how limited he is by going to big clubs and not winning a bean and getting tin tacked.

Couldnt care less about Moyes mate. He could win the CL with Barcelona for all I care.

Roberto has a blind spot. At times, (Chelsea FAC), he appears to address it.

But more often than not, he doesnt. It is infuriating, because as you say, he has performed.

Choice is his, cos if he continues like this, he is toast imo.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Never got near Martinez's total...and he did it with his team he left behind.

Moyes was a dullard manager. He's underlined how limited he is by going to big clubs and not winning a bean and getting tin tacked.

Moyes did that in an era when the 'Big 4' were dominant. The money in today's game has narrowed that gap to levels we haven't seen since the 70s/80s.

You fixate on this points total like it is the great thing we have ever done. You do know that we have better that points total many times in our history, don't you Dave?

 

[davek]

As time goes by, it is becoming obvious that maybe, yes.

There's the Moyes magic bean theory: that he sprinkled them in the penalty area before he left and defensive acumen was retained for 12 months until the spell wore off...if that's the case he should have saved a couple of bags for Old Trafford.

 

[Kendall's Dream]

He has though. Thats what I struggle with.

True. I would like to see how we would do with a top class keeper playing. One of Martinez's biggest mistake was keeping Howard in goal even if Robles isn't the answer. As I said, defence has to improve otherwise he's gone.