Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[TheHumbleEgg]

The thing is though it isn't like that mate.

RM doesn't make the players make the mistakes they do.

When his style has worked this season (so away from home and in the cup) it's been because the players have given it 100% and it's come off.

Saturday was a dreadful performance. From both the players and the manager.

All too often it's just RM who gets the blame when it's quite obvious there's an issue throughout the squad.

Just think that should be pointed out.

The players can affect more on the pitch than RM can.

...and it's his job to manage that mate.

 

[BlueToff]

Like the players not knowing what to do in dead ball situations,I get the impression they just hand out the bibs and lay the cones, even bloody Archie Knox used to show he was interested. like I said will be glad when they are gone.

This.

Blame RM for things he has done wrong - this been one of them.

Not for the players not being able to hit a simple pass.

 

[kithnou]

But this a live-time (or damn near it) forum. Are you saying I should withhold my sentiment for 6-12 months???
This isn't ASS my friend.

Far from it. Keeping me entertained

 

[oldblue]

So it was only Everton playing at quarter-to-one then?

They wouldn't have even performed at 8pm from what I seen on Saturday

Was just kidding. But have to be honest I hate kicks off at that time and the first half didn't feel too real

 

[RFUS]

The thing is though it isn't like that mate.

RM doesn't make the players make the mistakes they do.

When his style has worked this season (so away from home and in the cup) it's been because the players have given it 100% and it's come off.

Saturday was a dreadful performance. From both the players and the manager.

All too often it's just RM who gets the blame when it's quite obvious there's an issue throughout the squad.

Just think that should be pointed out.

The players can affect more on the pitch than RM can.

Every manager and team can get a few good results. You can't cherry pick them as examples of his style working. The style must be judged overall, and overall it doesn't work more often than it does. Thus it's not good enough.

Perhaps the execution isn't perfect but then you'd expect an improvement. Yet somehow we've worsened each season (I think this season is worse than last, given that we haven't had Europe this year).

Ultimately though, I think the biggest problem isn't a tactical one. It's a mental one. We have no fear factor, no game management, no bite, no clue at all. His inability to get any momentum for 2 years is criminal and say what you want about the players, but he signed most of the feckers. If he can't motivate them, if they're not trying, if they aren't good enough, whatever, it falls on his head.

The players get off lightly? Tim Howard, Kone, Stones etc will disagree. Even Ross, who's had a good season, has gotten his fair share of stick.

 

[maccavennie]

The only one on Saturday with any desire to put up a fight was Coleman...

Agreed WD and I'd still only give him a 5 or 6 out of 10. That shows you how pathetic the rest of the bloody shambles of a team performed

 

[BlueToff]

...and it's his job to manage that mate.

Yes but you blame him for everything.

Blame him for what he is at fault for - set pieces, bad subs etc etc there's plenty of them.

However, the players not putting in the effort and doing the simple things is on them.

 

[bluewally]

Yes but you blame him for everything.

Blame him for what he is at fault for - set pieces, bad subs etc etc there's plenty of them.

However, the players not putting in the effort and doing the simple things is on them.

The players looked lost on Saturday. There seemed to be no understanding of what system we were trying to play. Where does that come from?

Manager. 100%.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Was just kidding. But have to be honest I hate kicks off at that time and the first half didn't feel too real

Disagree with them meself, mate. Especially when there's a fair bit of travelling to be done. If there has to be k.o.'s at that time it should be between clubs closer to each other imo.

Doesn't excuse Saturday's horror show in any way, though.

 

[BlueToff]

Every manager and team can get a few good results. You can't cherry pick them as examples of his style working. The style must be judged overall, and overall it doesn't work more often than it does. Thus it's not good enough.

Perhaps the execution isn't perfect but then you'd expect an improvement. Yet somehow we've worsened each season (I think this season is worse than last, given that we haven't had Europe this year).

Ultimately though, I think the biggest problem isn't a tactical one. It's a mental one. We have no fear factor, no game management, no bite, no clue at all. His inability to get any momentum for 2 years is criminal and say what you want about the players, but he signed most of the feckers. If he can't motivate them, if they're not trying, if they aren't good enough, whatever, it falls on his head.

The players get off lightly? Tim Howard, Kone, Stones etc will disagree. Even Ross, who's had a good season, has gotten his fair share of stick.

I agree.

Again, I'm not saying Martinez isn't responsible.

But it's all as one and some people seem dead set on blaming him for everything.

If he went tomorrow, I wouldn't be that bothered.

Realistically though he's not going to and nothing anybody says on here no matter how convinced they are of their own self-importance or validity of their opinion is going to make a jot of difference to that.

If we lose the semi and play badly in the run up to it then I think there's a realistic chance he may go before season's end.

If not he's here until at least then.

Something has to change (whether that's a complete overhaul or internal tweaks) in the summer, though.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

You can't just blame Martinez though.

The players aren't robots.

If they can't get their heads up and play that simple pass (which they have done this season when we've played well...) then that's on them.

RM's faults lie with how he can't adjust his tactics (or won't do).

He isn't to blame for Barkley deciding not to pass to Lukaku.

...granted, but only to a point because it happens SO often that it can't really be missed, thus he shouldn't be missing it and should be addressing it with either or, yes?

 

[Smodger]

Yes but you blame him for everything.

Blame him for what he is at fault for - set pieces, bad subs etc etc there's plenty of them.

However, the players not putting in the effort and doing the simple things is on them.

Who is to blame the fans,the ref,the players never the managers fault.

 

[deipnosophist]

No, RFUS was claiming that it was like the cabin crew giving 100% but the pilot crashing the plane.

It's not like that exactly with football is it.

In that situation the cabin crew could do nothing to affect the end result.

In football they are literally the ones (on the pitch) who affect the end result...

Martinez's faults lie with the simple things but the players are massively underperforming on the whole and they get let off too easy.

I like you Blue Toff and your re-representation of the OP (also known as: moving the goal post) is to be applauded ....but only from a politician's perspective.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

The players looked lost on Saturday. There seemed to be no understanding of what system we were trying to play. Where does that come from?

Manager. 100%.

In fairness mate, they're paid well and ought to know what to do. There has to be some autonomy for the players (And especially when we're goals to the good) but there just doesn't appear to be any whatsoever.

 

[BlueToff]

The players looked lost on Saturday. There seemed to be no understanding of what system we were trying to play. Where does that come from?

Manager. 100%.

I was there on Saturday and yeh, they did look lost.

But as professional footballers who supposedly make up our best team in 30 years, I think they could try and get to grips with it a bit quicker.

Martinez isn't the one who makes Mori not manage to track Iwobi, for example.

It is mostly down to the manager - as I keep saying - but the players are also responsible for abject displays.