Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[hullefc]

Agree with all that. Pretty much any neutral watching us at home has commented on the nerves. It's obviously a mixture of things but just think the first part is to accept it's playing a huge part and work out what to do. I think someone on the pitch that they look to when they're nervous, encouraging them if they try something and getting the adrenalin going. I think on the whole with the crowd at times it's just too easy to hear individual voices. I think again the players can get the crowd to drown that out. I noticed couple Newcastle players trying to gee their crowd up directly. Would love to see a bit of that from Jags and Leighton.
Then there's the manager. I think he is a passionate person but I'd like to see that occasionally. Some of the players said he can make them feel ten feet tall. Just be good to see that side of him more visibly.
Then obviously there are tactics and I do want to find a way to see Del playing as well. Just think there's other things that we can get right that mean a dozen more points at home.
I doubt I could go through nights like Bayern too often but definitely I don't think we'd have won that without the fans. Second half they looked terrified

Haven't we brought a US fitness/endurance bloke in for next season who has worked with some good teams, not football? Fitter players with more stamina/endurance will allow us to play a higher tempo game.

I think that is one of our problems. I've seen Besic gee up the players with a 'come on' hands clenched. I've seen McCarthy do it and Coleman but not enough. Barry, Baines and Jags are not natural leaders and don't know how to get players going.

I think the thing with 'ten feet tall' is more to do with encouragement rather than chest out fist pumping. Watching Spurs and Leicester they are also very quiet. They do their talking through high energy pressing win the ball back, then get it forward and move. That said, Ranieri does show a fair bit of passion on the touchline. But I don't think Martinez is like that.

We need to see Delofeu in so he can develop as a player, he needs more game time but at the moment we are playing a bit more conservative/pragmatic. Defending at home is the key though and not sending too many forward would be a start.

 

[bcblue1878]

I know a lot of you don't agree with him, but give davek his due, the amount of grief coming at him from all sides would have most people locking themselves in a dark room, and sitting in the corner crying.

My suspicion is that he is actually locked in a dark room somewhere, sitting in the corner huddled over his laptop laughing his head off! The sign on the outside of the dark room's door says - Do not enter massive WUM at work!

 

[oldblue]

You don't seem unhappy to be 12th.

According to you the majority arent unhappy being 12th. Expectations managed downwards. It's OK some people don't see it happening until it's too late

Again telling me what I want and have said is just a little silly.

 

[royalblue66]

It's time he was sacked,don't know what the powers that be are waiting for.

 

[eternal_defiance]

http://www.[Publication is blacklis...ertons-ridiculous-tactics-against-arsenal-an/

Apoliogies if this has been posted but here is Ian Wright jumping on the 'what is Martinez doing ?' bandwagon.

 

[bluewally]

Again telling me what I want and have said is just a little silly.

Good riposte.

 

[willo30]

So after Saturdays capitulation you'd back us over two legs against RCD Espanyol?

Probably not.

My original point was that I could see Bobby managing Valencia next season but someone else said he wasn't even good enough for them. I argued that the lower teams in Spain could be his level.

Blame @MoutsGoat . He started it.

 

[oldblue]

Haven't we brought a US fitness/endurance bloke in for next season who has worked with some good teams, not football? Fitter players with more stamina/endurance will allow us to play a higher tempo game.

I think that is one of our problems. I've seen Besic gee up the players with a 'come on' hands clenched. I've seen McCarthy do it and Coleman but not enough. Barry, Baines and Jags are not natural leaders and don't know how to get players going.

I think the thing with 'ten feet tall' is more to do with encouragement rather than chest out fist pumping. Watching Spurs and Leicester they are also very quiet. They do their talking through high energy pressing win the ball back, then get it forward and move. That said, Ranieri does show a fair bit of passion on the touchline. But I don't think Martinez is like that.

We need to see Delofeu in so he can develop as a player, he needs more game time but at the moment we are playing a bit more conservative/pragmatic. Defending at home is the key though and not sending too many forward would be a start.

I've seen signs of it on the pitch from Besic definitely. And occasionally from Mori, Robles and Lennon. I'm hoping they feel more responsibility to do it next season. Or are given it.
I think a higher tempo is going to be partly down to the likes of Lennon and Besic dictating how we play too. I think fitness will help but nerves do lower the tempo naturally as well.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

I think that the league is a dead duck and maybe that's part of what went on Saturday. Players must be very focused on the cup. As much as people are referencing our league position I have started to see the league as being about how to get them performing better at home. Not that bothered whether we're twelfth or eighth.
Personally I can see them maybe discussing bringing in someone to work with him. Just doesn't feel like Everton to say anything else openly.

Mate, with sincere respect because you seem a sound & committed blue....(and I know this isn't solely your point too BTW) but I simply cannot get my head round how some on the forum have stated they're not arsed where we finish and that there's little difference between 5th & 15th etc, all that palaver...Maybe it's me, perhaps it's an age thing too, but I just cannot buy into that at all. The league, by its very nature, indicates progression...it's pretty well the only yardstick by which THAT sort of progression can be measured. I've read the 'building' argument and I get it, to a point, but there's no great kudos finishing 14th with potentially the Golden Boot winner in the side and then shrugging and goin' '....oh well, at least behind the scenes it's all boss....yada-yada-yada...and remember them 72 points....what larks etc'

Genuinely, I'd be cock-a-hoop-lar if we lift the tin...but should we not then ultimately I'd have been happier finishing 6th/7th than 13th/14th because at very least it's a sign we ARE going in the right direction as opposed to just saying we're going in the right direction whilst standing static or slipping further downward...

Whatever way you look at it, it's not great at the moment is it...

*That sounds sarky and like it's a big pop at you mate, genuinely, it isn't...

 

[DrEFC]

Well results can't actually be much worse at home. Suppose any group of players should work out how to play together the longer they do.
I'm not sure we'll see a spending spree but we do need a couple in that mean tactics at home can be changed.
I think we should see certain players showing a bit more leadership on the pitch as well.
I've always felt things will get better even under managers I haven't liked so to some extent I'm just balancing out the anxiety

I can understand that potential, if he could get the balance right, woof, we could be some team. But I just feel the style ain't right for the british game, and was reserved about him having till Xmas from last seasons cluster-F of a season. But we seemed to of got worse despite the improvement in our attacking play. Weirdly, I reckon Moyes with Rom, would of potentially bossed this season. I think we're destined to be an almost team! Get 4th, but they win the CL, get 72 points but it be the year it's not enough for CL. All the top 4 near implode, but me manage to be even worse. My stance is, I don't want him to manage our club anymore, but I've never booed at the ground or screamed for the head of Moyes nor the board at the match- if he's here next season, it won't stop me wanting Everton to win, I just don't think he's got the tools for it.

 

[oldblue]

Mate, with sincere respect because you seem a sound & committed blue....(and I know this isn't solely your point too BTW) but I simply cannot get my head round how some on the forum have stated they're not arsed where we finish and that there's little difference between 5th & 15th etc, all that palaver...Maybe it's me, perhaps it's an age thing too, but I just cannot buy into that at all. The league, by its very nature, indicates progression...it's pretty well the only yardstick by which THAT sort of progression can be measured. I've read the 'building' argument and I get it, to a point, but there's no great kudos finishing 14th with potentially the Golden Boot winner in the side and then shrugging and goin' '....oh well, at least behind the scenes it's all boss....yada-yada-yada...and remember them 72 points....what larks etc'

Genuinely, I'd be cock-a-hoop-lar if we lift the tin...but should we not then ultimately I'd have been happier finishing 6th/7th than 13th/14th because at very least it's a sign we ARE going in the right direction as opposed to just saying we're going in the right direction whilst standing static or slipping further downward...

Whatever way you look at it, it's not great at the moment is it...

*That sounds sarky and like it's a big pop at you mate, genuinely, it isn't...

Suppose I've seen too many teams flatter a little in terms of league position and then fizzle out next.
I agree it should be a clear indication of how well you're doing but every season there are probably either a dozen points we've either grabbed against the odds or a dozen we should have had.
Now that could be a sign of a winning mentality or lack of. But usually turns out to be the ups or downs of an average season.
The times I've seen us win something it really couldn't have been predicted the season before. The only clues you'd have seen are underperforming but promising youngsters and a couple of determined veterans.
On one occasion we stuck with the manager and it turned round. On another we didn't and it turned round.
Neither manager went onto achieve much away from the club.
All I can say is you'll remember winning something. And hopefully you'll start to feel a pride in a team that wasn't there before. That could turn that team into winners. Not sure finishing seventh would.

 

[Ashtonian]

Suppose I've seen too many teams flatter a little in terms of league position and then fizzle out next.
I agree it should be a clear indication of how well you're doing but every season there are probably either a dozen points we've either grabbed against the odds or a dozen we should have had.
Now that could be a sign of a winning mentality or lack of. But usually turns out to be the ups or downs of an average season.
The times I've seen us win something it really couldn't have been predicted the season before. The only clues you'd have seen are underperforming but promising youngsters and a couple of determined veterans.
On one occasion we stuck with the manager and it turned round. On another we didn't and it turned round.
Neither manager went onto achieve much away from the club.
All I can say is you'll remember winning something. And hopefully you'll start to feel a pride in a team that wasn't there before. That could turn that team into winners. Not sure finishing seventh would.

For me personally winning the cup this year will be bitter sweet.

20 years ago we won after being basically dead and buried and an everton legend came in and saved us, leading nus to cup glory on the way. Fantastic stuff, great memories as well.

This time round we would be winning it in spite of everything else, which although fantastic for winning it, just going to be a thorn in my side also.

 

[oldblue]

I can understand that potential, if he could get the balance right, woof, we could be some team. But I just feel the style ain't right for the british game, and was reserved about him having till Xmas from last seasons cluster-F of a season. But we seemed to of got worse despite the improvement in our attacking play. Weirdly, I reckon Moyes with Rom, would of potentially bossed this season. I think we're destined to be an almost team! Get 4th, but they win the CL, get 72 points but it be the year it's not enough for CL. All the top 4 near implode, but me manage to be even worse. My stance is, I don't want him to manage our club anymore, but I've never booed at the ground or screamed for the head of Moyes nor the board at the match- if he's here next season, it won't stop me wanting Everton to win, I just don't think he's got the tools for it.

Trust me I've had that feeling of being a nearly team longer than I can remember. And it didn't even change in the eighties. Always felt like there ought to be a way of using that as a strength.
It's not really based on any reality though. Can't help but think two great days out at Wembley would sort it. For a bit anyway.
I totally understand why people have had enough. As you say though it can't change how we feel about the club. I was alive when Gordon Lee was manager. If anyone was going to make me boo then that would have done.

 

[oldblue]

For me personally winning the cup this year will be bitter sweet.

20 years ago we won after being basically dead and buried and an everton legend came in and saved us, leading nus to cup glory on the way. Fantastic stuff, great memories as well.

This time round we would be winning it in spite of everything else, which although fantastic for winning it, just going to be a thorn in my side also.

Last time we won something I couldn't go. It was my first season for a long time without a season ticket and so despite going to every home game we had to queue over night with vouchers we were told guaranteed a ticket.
Not only did we not get one we found out part of the reason we'd been queueing all night was because they couldn't be bothered putting more than a couple of gates on. Then they announced they only had a small number of tickets left to thousands waiting outside and caused a crush.
Walked away saying I wouldn't even watch the final I despised how they treated us that much.
All forgotten on the day and totally in love with the club again.
They don't deserve us but that's how things are. And on a positive I don't think we'd be treated with such lack of respect any more.

 

[DrEFC]

Trust me I've had that feeling of being a nearly team longer than I can remember. And it didn't even change in the eighties. Always felt like there ought to be a way of using that as a strength.
It's not really based on any reality though. Can't help but think two great days out at Wembley would sort it. For a bit anyway.
I totally understand why people have had enough. As you say though it can't change how we feel about the club. I was alive when Gordon Lee was manager. If anyone was going to make me boo then that would have done.

I was an 80's child so, just aware enough to celebrate the last league on my dads shoulder. Least you've witnessed 84/85/87 in all its glory! A cup win could be a real catalyst for a change in mentality by the team and fans. But as laid out too many times in this Everton bipolar thread, Martinez's managerial record in the league is frightening bar one season. Have a good day though OB, I best get some shut eye!