Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Khalekan]

...and yet when the atmosphere is upbeat - as against Chelsea - you see what happens.

There's more than one side to this home form issue.

In any case. Put it to one side and emphasise away form and a realistic cup success. Isn't that something better to obsess about?

The atmosphere was indeed upbeat against Chelsea but the performance, particularly in the first half, was cagey and the pace pedestrian.

The week before against Hammers the Park was raucous but that did not stop us losing a two goal lead.

Bobby did that with his 75th minute substitution.

Stop blaming the fans.

It is old and it is untrue.

 

[gaino92]

What has a cup run got to do with anything? What's the difference in getting knocked out in the 3rd round or losing in the semis/final? A bit more prize money? Still a loser at the end of the day

 

[hullefc]

Home league form = unacceptabe
Away league form = acceptable
Cup performances home and away = acceptable

You see, it's not that difficult to deconstruct a season with obvious subdivisions like that and find more positives to focus on than the negative.

As said: stop obsessing on one aspect of the season and start feeling some pride in those other aspects. It might cheer you up.

Quite well put when you think of it like that. What I can't get my head around though, is why hasn't our unacceptable home form put Evertonians off going to home games or why haven't we had mass walk outs?

 

[Tubey]

Home league form = unacceptabe
Away league form = acceptable
Cup performances home and away = acceptable

You see, it's not that difficult to deconstruct a season with obvious subdivisions like that and find more positives to focus on than the negative.

As said: stop obsessing on one aspect of the season and start feeling some pride in those other aspects. It might cheer you up.

Hahaha

Let me fix that...

Home league form = disastrous, indeed could be the worst in our history come the end of play, and is already in the top three worst ever.
Away league form = acceptable
Cup performances = TBD

Overall, very, very much below par.

I actually just don't know why you don't admit the obvious - Martinez has had a shocking two seasons, on paper he deserves the sack, but for you personally your heart is overruling your head and you feel he'll come good.

Because if you said that, fine. But as it is, you're scrambling around, moving goalposts and desperately trying to find something to defend the indefensible, when in reality you should just admit you know he hasn't been good enough, but you personally believe he will be good enough.

 

[davek]

that was exactly what i said though?! The team performing poorly is why the fans are negative at goodison. Cause and effect in its purest form, the fans aren't getting behind the team because of the poor displays in front of them, so of course they aren't happy, their money is paying to watch it. If the team were, you know, winning games, then they would be a lot more behind the team.

As i said the fans are turning at goodison, and once they have gone then that will be it for martinez, the same fans who didn't turn on moyes in 11 years pretty much.

We've played like we did against Chelsea loads of times though - in fact better than that and hitting woodwork multiple times etc - but the moment arrives when the breakthrough hasn't been met and the cat calls come.

These players (and I'm not defending them by the way because they should be stronger) are petrified of playing at Goodison and standing up and being counted to pipe them down.

There's no getting around that, and if anyone seriously makes a case against that fact they're way off the pace.

 

[Tubey]

Quite well put when you think of it like that. What I can't get my head around though, is why hasn't our unacceptable home form put Evertonians off going to home games or why haven't we had mass walk outs?

Haha what?? It's terribly put! It's putting equal weighting on our home and away record, like one balances out the other!

 

[Ashtonian]

He's not good enough because he went to a club that had spent hundreds of millions and he then spent hundreds of millions also...and that was never enough return from his backing.

To be honest Rodgers and MArtinez are the same manager.

Both had one season out of three that was over achieving.

Both got to cup semi finals

rodgers was sacked due to poor league form. (11th and currently 12th for us?)

Rodgers record was that he only lost 1/5 of his games there, won twice as much as losing.

compare that to martinez who is averaging not that far off evens for all wins/loss/draws.

Rodgers had money sure, but he also got better results. MArtinez has spent a fair bit of money also, yet is getting worse results than when the manager had no funds to spend.

 

[Ashtonian]

We've played like we did against Chelsea loads of times though - in fact better than that and hitting woodwork multiple times etc - but the moment arrives when the breakthrough hasn't been met and the cat calls come.

These players (and I'm not defending them by the way because they should be stronger) are petrified of playing at Goodison and standing up and being counted to pipe them down.

There's no getting around that, and if anyone seriously makes a case against that fact they're way off the pace.

Ok,

what is the reason for the fans being negative then mate? Why are the fans on the back of both the manager and the team? why do they boo them, why do they groan when things are going wrong?

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Jags..... "it’s difficult to make that sort of incredible atmosphere we had when the performances have been so inconsistent and the results haven’t been what we expect.

“We certainly haven’t been sat in the dressing room blaming anyone, that’s for certain.

“We know we need to perform for the fans to make it a fortress, and we know that’s not been the case for the majority of the season."

Sound absolutely petrified of playing at Goodison.... PETRIFIED I TELL YOU.

 

[davek]

...that's precisely what you do in relation to HUGE chunks of BOB's CV though Dave, it is dismissed as an irrelevance and deemed unimportant to any argument relating to his acumen/ability/awareness...

I get - sometimes - where you're coming from with him, only sometimes mind, but I genuinely feel he's way too lulled by his adherence to his 'philosophy' to regularly & successfully manage entire league campaigns. Cup runs, yes, clearly he has a tickle....but I fear he's too tunnel-visioned to operate consistently in the division...

If I'm proved wrong via an FA cup, holding onto ROM for a season at least and a MASSIVE improvement next year then I'm happy to be so...

I've critiqued this manager before now: last season I stated he'd lost the plot concentrating energy on that worthless EL competition...the football equivalent of an assault on Leningrad; and this season I stated he'd allowed his Howard obsession to derail us.

But I wont be railroaded out of my sincere belief that Martinez is a good manager and that he;s proven elsewhere he can make a big difference to clubs.

...and I also dont much like bullying and lynch mob mentalities...and those who think themselves better than that but join in regardless...no names no pack drills.

 

[oldblue]

Why would Gordon Lee make you boo mate? The seasons we finished 3rd and 4th were very entertaining.

Total personality thing. Don't really remember the football.

 

[MikeH72]

77 minutes on the clock in a league game and the irritation would have made its way down the terraces and onto the pitch; 77 minutes in a crucial cup game and support was still 100% there...and we reaped the rewards from that and swept Chelsea aside.

It's nonsense to believe there's no direct relation between atmosphere and results.

What about West Ham when the atmosphere was rocking and we were 2-0 up, and then we still contrived to collapse? Was that game the fans' fault?

 

[Khalekan]

Quite well put when you think of it like that. What I can't get my head around though, is why hasn't our unacceptable home form put Evertonians off going to home games or why haven't we had mass walk outs?

i don't think the fact almost 40,000 of us continue to follow our team is a sign that what we are being served up in terms of results is "acceptable", Hull.

I have missed two home games this season and do not envisage missing another one.

Please don't take that as a sign I find what us happening now in any way "acceptable".

As you know, I have been in Bobby's corner all along but the clueless substitution against Hammers and the Fuad o that was Arsenal has opened my eyes to what people have been saying for ages.

It us not acceptable.....it is not good enough.

Many thousands are now thinking that.....but we will still be at the match.

 

[Groucho]

Why would Gordon Lee make you boo mate? The seasons we finished 3rd and 4th were very entertaining.

3rd and 4th weren't really the top spots that they are these days.

Then, 2nd was nowhere.

Hardly failure though.

 

[davek]

Quite well put when you think of it like that. What I can't get my head around though, is why hasn't our unacceptable home form put Evertonians off going to home games or why haven't we had mass walk outs?

We had the same last season "I'm not renewing...I'm cutting me season ticket up as we speak". Summer time comes: record season ticket figures.

It's all me arse and people KNOW that the level of performance is there if not the results. It's hugely frustrating, I accept that.