Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[deipnosophist]

Through the ages, beeswax was used to preserve thread.

Plus ca change....

 

[nsno-chris]

What good?

The fact that we've reached two semi-finals in the same season - something that hasn't been achieved in how long? I've been a fan for the past 14 years, and it definitely never happened in that time?

The fact that a Wembley visit is now back on after four years without.

And, the fact that most of our good performances have come in the cups and we've shown what we are actually capable of (City H, Chelsea H as two examples) - including a goal of the season contender.

14 years?? You're a pup mate. 2 semi final appearances for this great club is not classed as success, winning 2 cups, yes; semi finals, no...not a chance. There's no argument on this, I don't care who says otherwise.

We've reached the semi finals of the F.A Cup record times, but it ain't on our history and there's no trophy in the cabinet

 

[Ashtonian]

What good?

The fact that we've reached two semi-finals in the same season - something that hasn't been achieved in how long? I've been a fan for the past 14 years, and it definitely never happened in that time?

The fact that a Wembley visit is now back on after four years without.

And, the fact that most of our good performances have come in the cups and we've shown what we are actually capable of (City H, Chelsea H as two examples) - including a goal of the season contender.

I wonder if some fans like yourself hold the cup runs in far more esteem than what you should be. Anyone can have a cup run but the league is what matters. Many teams have had good cup runs and still sacked their manager, i mean Pulis for example, semi final, turned stoke into a premier league team and still for the sake of progression league wise they let him go.

If we won say 4 more games this season, drew a few, got to the final, i would asusme the likes of yourself would give martinez more time. Now if that translated into no more good cup runs and still poor league form, would that not damage the club in the long term through loss of players, lack of attraction for better players (when southampton/west ham/stoke/liverpool are in our playing field now) and certainly for fan morale on a match day? I mean if we lost out on Payet due to wages this summer then fair enough, but imagine if wages wasn't an issue but the player just genuinely chose west ham over us each time. This would be down to league form only, not the fact we won 9 league titles in the past or got to a semi final once or twice.

 

[DrEFC]

@BlueToff is young and positive. I'd rather be like that instead of your typical Everton fan. I've seen us collapse in too many semi's. Everton- trying to thumb in a beak fuelled flop since 95.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Our away form is a myth. It's above average but it isn't excellent. We've won 5 away games which is only 1 more than our widely acknowledged terrible home form.

 

[BlueToff]

@BlueToff is young and positive. I'd rather be like that instead of your typical Everton fan. I've seen us collapse in too many semi's. Everton- trying to thumb in a beak fuelled flop since 95.

hehe.

Trust me mate, I was two months old when we last won a trophy and I've still seen my fair share of disappointment.

I'm far from happy with the current state of affairs, league-wise.

It needs to be addressed. If Martinez went next week, I wouldn't be overly bothered.

He's not going to though and realistically nothing will be done until the end of the season at the earliest.

He's done a lot of good for this club, but isn't so far living up to the standards consistently that this squad (who also share the blame) should be hitting.

 

[BlueToff]

Our away form is a myth. It's above average but it isn't excellent. We've won 5 away games which is only 1 more than our widely acknowledged terrible home form.

But that's to be expected.

Only 1 defeat on the road is very good.

We should be hitting double figures in home wins.

Had we done that this season, we'd be top four contenders.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

That my friend is pure popcorn...you utter minx.

I finally need not worry about any of his posts...

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

But that's to be expected.

Only 1 defeat on the road is very good.

We should be hitting double figures in home wins.

Had we done that this season, we'd be top four contenders.

It's better but you don't get 3 points for not losing.

 

[BlueToff]

I wonder if some fans like yourself hold the cup runs in far more esteem than what you should be. Anyone can have a cup run but the league is what matters. Many teams have had good cup runs and still sacked their manager, i mean Pulis for example, semi final, turned stoke into a premier league team and still for the sake of progression league wise they let him go.

If we won say 4 more games this season, drew a few, got to the final, i would asusme the likes of yourself would give martinez more time. Now if that translated into no more good cup runs and still poor league form, would that not damage the club in the long term through loss of players, lack of attraction for better players (when southampton/west ham/stoke/liverpool are in our playing field now) and certainly for fan morale on a match day? I mean if we lost out on Payet due to wages this summer then fair enough, but imagine if wages wasn't an issue but the player just genuinely chose west ham over us each time. This would be down to league form only, not the fact we won 9 league titles in the past or got to a semi final once or twice.

Pulis left two years after getting Stoke to that final?

I'm not putting more emphasis on the cup runs.

I'm disagreeing with the fact they are worthless.

They clearly aren't.

The league means zilch unless you're in the top 7 or relegated in terms of bringing players in.

Now that doesn't mean I'm happy with where we are, far from it.

But, with the huge money now available to all clubs, a team that finished 16th can probably attract the same players that a team that finishes 10th can.

 

[BlueToff]

It's better but you don't get 3 points for not losing.

Pack it in.

Our away form is very good.

Our home form has let us down, pure and simple.

 

[BlueToff]

14 years?? You're a pup mate. 2 semi final appearances for this great club is not classed as success, winning 2 cups, yes; semi finals, no...not a chance. There's no argument on this, I don't care who says otherwise.

We've reached the semi finals of the F.A Cup record times, but it ain't on our history and there's no trophy in the cabinet

I'm not saying two semi-finals is a success at all.

I'm saying that the cup runs aren't worthless.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Bit gutted i never got involved in this thread last night to be honest, melting down Dixies statue for a Martinez has to be a forum highlight.

Excellent fishing - well done.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I'm not saying two semi-finals is a success at all.

I'm saying that the cup runs aren't worthless.

I think people mean mate if we don't win the competition we have nothing to show for it, so therefor its seen as worthless.

Its like people going on about having a great day out at wembley because we got to the semi final, like we get a trophy for that. There is a hell of a lot of assumption going on about the cup, which happened before the city game.

Its only a great day out if you win the cup, otherwise it effects nothing.

 

[Ashtonian]

But, with the huge money now available to all clubs, a team that finished 16th can probably attract the same players that a team that finishes 10th can.

that is probably true, but when similar clubs are after the same player, the league performance year on year does come into effect. Say for example you are Mario Superstardio, everton and southampton come in for you. Both can pay you the same, perhaps even everton pay you more. Do you take the higher wages and expect reletively poor league form, or do you take the chance that you are or will be playing european football? That is where the league effect comes into play away from money, players want europe and playing on higher stages, not struggling in the league every year.

It will have an effect on the players we can bring in over the long term if we continue down the path, not just for the player themselves but the agents involved, we won't be as an attractive a club to sign for.

ad to be fair cup runs are worthless without a trophy at the end of it. Do you remember who the 4 semi finalists where say 4 years ago off the top of your head for example? No trophy means nothing to show for it, and last year proved a penalty shootout could be the difference between winning the cup or going out in the first round.