Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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chazzle_dazzle said:
I think people mean mate if we don't win the competition we have nothing to show for it, so therefor its seen as worthless.

Its like people going on about having a great day out at wembley because we got to the semi final, like we get a trophy for that. There is a hell of a lot of assumption going on about the cup, which happened before the city game.

Its only a great day out if you win the cup, otherwise it effects nothing.
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Personally I like to see us competing on all fronts.

We've messed up big time in the league - everyone (even Dave) admits that.

But two very good cup runs is not to be sniffed at.

Look at the goal that Rom scored last week. Had we not got to the quarters, that wouldn't have happened...

Plus the matchday revenue from the extra games, 35,000 blues getting to Wembley.

No we're not guaranteed to win it, but not winning doesn't make a cup run worthless, in my eyes, if you get to the last four - when the cup runs have seen us play some of our best stuff this season and show what this team is capable of.
 
BlueToff said:
I'm not saying two semi-finals is a success at all.

I'm saying that the cup runs aren't worthless.
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BlueToff said:
hehe.

Trust me mate, I was two months old when we last won a trophy and I've still seen my fair share of disappointment.

I'm far from happy with the current state of affairs, league-wise.

It needs to be addressed. If Martinez went next week, I wouldn't be overly bothered.

He's not going to though and realistically nothing will be done until the end of the season at the earliest.

He's done a lot of good for this club, but isn't so far living up to the standards consistently that this squad (who also share the blame) should be hitting.
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I'm in the same boat mate, I was 3 when we won our last trophy so don't remember it, he has assembled a bloody good squad and done jack with it, only way he gets a pass from me is show he can change his way of playing in the remaining games of the season and win the cup, if neither happen then see you mate, thanks for the players but don't let the door hit you on the way out
 
nsno-chris said:
14 years?? You're a pup mate. 2 semi final appearances for this great club is not classed as success, winning 2 cups, yes; semi finals, no...not a chance. There's no argument on this, I don't care who says otherwise.

We've reached the semi finals of the F.A Cup record times, but it ain't on our history and there's no trophy in the cabinet
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Do we still hold that record?

Arsenal are up to twenty nine F.A. Cup semi finals now......I think they have surpassed us.
 
BlueToff said:
Personally I like to see us competing on all fronts.

We've messed up big time in the league - everyone (even Dave) admits that.

But two very good cup runs is not to be sniffed at.

Look at the goal that Rom scored last week. Had we not got to the quarters, that wouldn't have happened...

Plus the matchday revenue from the extra games, 35,000 blues getting to Wembley.

No we're not guaranteed to win it, but not winning doesn't make a cup run worthless, in my eyes, if you get to the last four - when the cup runs have seen us play some of our best stuff this season and show what this team is capable of.
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We have to be competing on all fronts, which is why i am absolutely baffled at some peoples (not aimed at you) reluctance to be in the Europa League. Yes its a nightmare competition, but its playing in Europe, better exposure and the best players want to be playing in Europe week in week out. I hate as a country we deprioritise the EL - every other country treats it with massive respect, we laugh at it.

Good cup runs aren't to be sniffed at, i agree - however all them wins don't really mean anything in the grand scheme unless we lift the cup.
 

Eric Djemba-Djemba said:
It's the 7th best in the league.
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Yep.

So combine it with a reasonable home form (9 wins I'd say would have been reasonable at this point). We would have been contesting for top four.

We haven't used Goodison to our advantage, I'm not disputing that.

Our away form has been sound - bordering on very good - though.

Norwich and Swansea away, we missed loads of chances. That's on the players. Chelsea away, a horrid ref call from winning the game. City away - first time a team has kept a clean sheet at the Etihad in over a year (and don't give me the crap about the penalty - we've had plenty of pen decisions go against us and at least with that they even out - unlike losing two points - which would see us above Chelsea, btw - in overtime of stoppage time to an offside goal).

Only away perfromances that weren't good this season have been

- Norwich second half
- Arsenal
- Bournemouth last 20 minutes after McCarthy went off injured
 
gaino92 said:
I'm in the same boat mate, I was 3 when we won our last trophy so don't remember it, he has assembled a bloody good squad and done jack with it, only way he gets a pass from me is show he can change his way of playing in the remaining games of the season and win the cup, if neither happen then see you mate, thanks for the players but don't let the door hit you on the way out
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And I agree on the last point mate - entirely.

But that doesn't make the cup runs worthless, IMO.
 
chazzle_dazzle said:
We have to be competing on all fronts, which is why i am absolutely baffled at some peoples (not aimed at you) reluctance to be in the Europa League. Yes its a nightmare competition, but its playing in Europe, better exposure and the best players want to be playing in Europe week in week out. I hate as a country we deprioritise the EL - every other country treats it with massive respect, we laugh at it.

Good cup runs aren't to be sniffed at, i agree - however all them wins don't really mean anything in the grand scheme unless we lift the cup.
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I understand that last point mate, I just don't agree with them being called worthless.

In this instance we've shown more desire and good play in the cups than in the league - to an extent in games against City and Chelsea at Goodison we've shown that we're still capable of a 'classic' performance at home.

We haven't followed that up in the league and the players and - mainly - RM, must take responsibility for that.

Martinez may well be a cup manager, one that can get the performances in 'one-off' games rather than consistently.

If that's the case then he may have to go, but at least we have mounted two serious challenges for silverware this season.
 

BlueToff said:
I'm not saying two semi-finals is a success at all.

I'm saying that the cup runs aren't worthless.
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They are unless you win it, it's no different than going on an 5/6 game winning streak (because in theory that's all it is, if no replays etc). Would it be a success if you dud that in the league and got relegated.

Lifting the cup is the only thing that counts, getting beat in the semi is the same as getting beat in the 3rd round, you're out of the competition with nothing to show for it.

It's just a way of claiming a "successful" season, it's not
 
BlueToff said:
I understand that last point mate, I just don't agree with them being called worthless.

In this instance we've shown more desire and good play in the cups than in the league - to an extent in games against City and Chelsea at Goodison we've shown that we're still capable of a 'classic' performance at home.

We haven't followed that up in the league and the players and - mainly - RM, must take responsibility for that.

Martinez may well be a cup manager, one that can get the performances in 'one-off' games rather than consistently.

If that's the case then he may have to go, but at least we have mounted two serious challenges for silverware this season.
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Don't know if you seen (there has been a lot of posts in this thread hahaha), but i made a similar point the other day to dave... I think he might just be a cup manager who can't show the consistency over a league season.
 
What I don't get is, people are defending Martinez for the Cup run, saying the run itself is enough justification for praise whether we win the cup at the end or not (Which I could potentially get on board with)

But those same people will then have a go at Moyes as a failure, when he had us in the latter stages of the cups on more than one occasion, while also having a weaker squad to work with

So, what's with the double standard?

I'm happy to give both praise for getting us to Wembley

Let's knock the hypocrisy on the head, eh?
 

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