Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[roydo]

Lets try and picture a world in which an Everton Manager spends 28million on a Striker, who turns into 1 of the best Strikers in Europe and the team finishes 11th, TWICE and the man not only keeps his job, but certain sections of our fanbase think he deserves another 12months.

Baffled here.

With maybe 20% of an England starting squad lobbed in for good measure.

 

[PhilM]

Not a single youth player has been promoted to the first team since Martinez took over.

Not 1 single player.

When thinking about it you're right. All the younger players introduced have been bought under his tenure or already in or around the first team.

Elstone was even quoted saying Martinez thought out U21 setup was the worst in the league; U18 great but U21 awful.

 

[Goat]

With maybe 20% of an England starting squad lobbed in for good measure.

A squad utterly rammed with International players, RAMMED.

 

[mkrudden]

What youth have we introduced this season apart from Galloway for the first few games?

You mean the style that we've been building for 3 years, and that we (according to some) actually seemingly perfected in 2013/14 anyway?

Introduction was the wrong word.

"Reliance".

 

[Goat]

When thinking about it you're right. All the younger players introduced have been bought under his tenure or already in or around the first team.

Elstone was even quoted saying Martinez thought out U21 setup was the worst in the league; U18 great but U21 awful.

People go on about him giving youth a chance, not 1 player from OUR academy has played under Martinez.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

I read it fine.

The Martinez brigade believe that our stuttering and inconsistent campaign is due to a combination of reasons:

Martinez and his loyalty, namely to Howard.
The natural consequence of introducing youth
The natural consequence of introducing inexperience
The natural consequence of a huge rebuilding job, in style, in mentality
The natural consequence of having limited transfer windows to bring in players progressively
The natural consequence of a financial model of bringing in talented young players with potential rather than their 28 year oldw equivalents


They are just the ones I can think of.
The model has changed. We are billionaires. We can't spend that until the summer. in effect the process starts again but from a far more competitive playing field.

So yes, we think that mid table is acceptable providing he bring in quality in mass this summer.

Think you forgot one.

The natural consequence of crap management.

 

[mkrudden]

People go on about him giving youth a chance, not 1 player from OUR academy has played under Martinez.

Youth is based on age, not origin. Surely?

 

[roydo]

A squad utterly rammed with International players, RAMMED.

From a normal match day squad, probably only Gerry who hasnt had a full international cap? Maybe Robles as well.

Not many anyrate.

Mind, you could probably lob that stat at most PL teams these days I guess.

 

[MikeH72]

People go on about him giving youth a chance, not 1 player from OUR academy has played under Martinez.

Barkley becoming an established first team player is the only one, but he was already a known quantity and would have broken into the team under any manager

 

[PhilM]

People go on about him giving youth a chance, not 1 player from OUR academy has played under Martinez.

Well apart from Barkley who he brought up from the U21s in his first game, but that's literally it.

 

[mmmmsnouts]

Lets try and picture a world in which an Everton Manager spends 28million on a Striker, who turns into 1 of the best Strikers in Europe and the team finishes 11th, TWICE and the man not only keeps his job, but certain sections of our fanbase think he deserves another 12months.

Baffled here.

You reckon we can move up to 11th this year?

 

[mkrudden]

Think you forgot one.

The natural consequence of crap management.

Good one mate. You da man.

Zzzzzz

 

[davek]

(i) does the team have greater belief today than 3 years ago?

Would you say that the belief of the team is improving or deteriorating as this season progresses?

You're talking about a team that's smashed in 73 goals so far this season (and equally in both 'halves' of the season). Not a feature I'd associate with a team wracked by self doubt.

If this team didn't have belief they'd have crumbled against a Chelsea team unbeaten domestically for umpteen games and desperate to keep their season up and running.

(ii) what evidence is there that the team has acquired greater tactical awareness and flexibility over the last 3 years?
What evidence is there that the team has acquired a greater ability to adapt tactics during the course of a match resulting in a positive outcome at the end of a games or games?

It's staring you in the face all season. The performances (if not the results) have been marked with greater energy and the tempo has picked up noticeably since last season. That's why we've scored buckets full.

Our biggest failure has been protecting what we have. That, is a huge failure. Of course it is. It's a stick to beat the manager with, no question. However, and here's the rub: we can do exactly that and against very good opposition too. We can adapt. Look at how we dug in against a very good Spurs team after drawing level; look at the City game in the LC when we were able to play, get ahead and then take the sting out of the game; look at Chelsea in the FA Cup when we doggedly hung in, were patient, and didn't twist after we got a winning hand.

I have to ask whether you see that and dont acknowledge that it's there.

Is it enough? No. But it cant be levelled at this manager it's not in his armoury. He needs to deploy it much more often...or maybe he does and the players are bottling it.

(iii) our defensive record (Premier League - goals conceded):

2011/12 40 goals 1.052 /match (Moyes)
2012/13 40 goals 1.052 /match (Moyes)
2013/14 39 goals 1.026 /match (Martinez)
2014/15 50 goals 1.316/match (Martinez)
2015/16* 41 goals 1.414/ match (Martinez)

* after 29 games

The amount of goals we conceded in the last two seasons have been lamentable, but by your own figures it shows it need not be that way under Martinez.

The evidence is there Dave, we do not possess a manger with all the necessary skills to challenge consistently for the top 4 places.

If you want a manager that 'consistently challenges for the top four places' then give him the cash to prove it can be him. He's had a reasonable budget here and no more than that. Would you think it fair to judge a future Arsenal or United manager as a success or failure after giving them a net spend of about £12M each season? I doubt it. You;d reasonably say that unless they were backed with a net spend approaching half what City spend then it's an uphill task to say the least.

As said on that ^^^ topic before: Martinez is being judged by a criteria never used on any previous manager of the club: get a CL spot or you're sacked. Sorry. I wont be endorsing that ridiculous high bar - unless Moshiri backs him substantially.

 

[quasi modo]

Does this mean we will win the league next year?

The year after.

Our promotion winning team of 2017/18.

 

[hktoffee]

From a normal match day squad, probably only Gerry who hasnt had a full international cap? Maybe Robles as well.

Not many anyrate.

Mind, you could probably lob that stat at most PL teams these days I guess.

Del boy has one crap for Spain. Robles is not an international, yet.