Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[McBain]

I wouldn't even know where to begin.
Reeks of an agenda and a blindless to give even the most subtle of credits.

So for an entire season we just stumbled across 72 points?

I repeat:

What?

Yawn.

I think @davek nailed it in a few paragraphs which have already been commented on many times.

The style of play is very clear and yet doesnt it occur to people that hes gradually improving the squad? 9 of the first choice 11 were developed / signed by Martinez. Should he therefore have spent £40mil on far better players than Osman or Pienaar....there hasnt been enough money and these two amongst others have been taking up wages.

Yarmolenko was of course earmarked for the left sided position but instead we have players there who cost under £5mil combined.

Its like building a house, people want to complain because it may rain but dont want to let the builders finish the roof. Also theres not the best kitchen or bathrooms but theres not enough money to upgrade...

His rebuilding has been amazing and i for one hope he has as much success this summer.

Me too, but the style of play is boring and predictable. Plays right into any decent Managers hands. And doesn't Yarmolenko primarily play on the right side? Shoehorning 101. Tarashaj could be a loan or two from being ready, granted he's got the physicality and mentality, which is questionable until given a shot.

Well wrote was that @Brownie

 

[RFUS]

@Brownie absolutely top drawer stuff, mate.

El Fraudo out, Br0wNz in.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Leicester's counter: Drinkwater smacks it 40 yards to Vardy.

Our approach play is a bit more fluid and sophisticated than that.

Yeah Mahrez and Kante have done nothing have they? This sort of comment shows you are just an idealist unable to see past your pro Martinez stance with no semblance of the real world of the premier league. The league leaders only play hoofball whilst we in 12th place are more sophisticated?! It would be embarassing if I didn't think you're just playing to the crowd now.

 

[RFUS]

Leicester's counter: Drinkwater smacks it 40 yards to Vardy.

Our approach play is a bit more fluid and sophisticated than that.

Careful Dave. Making it a bit too obvious you're on a wind up with posts like this.

 

[ianefc]

Probably should have expanded on that. I was recalling the game at Swansea in his first season when Coleman scored a ridiculous goal, then we messed it up but Barks scored a freekick winner. There were quite a few games like that – West Ham away, Fulham away, Hull and Cardiff at home, Southampton – where we gave away a lead but still found a way to win the game. Often it was the substitutes that came on and made the difference; we took massive risks, went all out on the attack at times, and by and large the risks paid off. This season whenever we've given away a lead and then chased the game we've ended up conceding at the other end. The Bournemouth game summed it up. Cruising at 2-0, messed it up, sent everyone forward to get a last minute winner, managed to get it, then threw it away anyway.

The point I'm trying to make is that playing like that, riding the momentum of a game, is a bit of a lottery. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. In his first season it worked, last season and this season not so much. It's not necessarily a bad way of playing, I mean Newcastle nearly won the league doing it, I just don't like it.

One of the games that was very similar to the ones you mentioned above was Aston Villa at home, we were AWFUL in the first half, I think McGeady hit the post at the Park end on about 10 minutes and that was that, Barkley couldn't find a man and we went a goal down going into half time. TBF to Martinez it was yet another brilliant substitution when on HT he swapped Barkley for Osman, and given the season Ross was having that was a brave decision. Point is at HT if I hadn't of known any better I'd say we were the relegation fodder and they were the top 4 contenders. It wasn't the perfect season that has been made out, but notably substitutions and tactics were better. We went on to win 2-1 the winner being another 'Worldy' that we relied on so heavily that season to the point we could of had our very own PL goal of the season comp, that was not sustainable either.

Great piece by the way mate. Bang on the money.

 

[Zatara]

Yawn.



Me too, but the style of play is boring and predictable. Plays right into any decent Managers hands. And doesn't Yarmolenko primarily play on the right side? Shoehorning 101. Tarashaj could be a loan or two from being ready, granted he's got the physicality and mentality, which is questionable until given a shot.

Well wrote was that @Brownie

Yarmolenko and Deulofeu switching sides during games is mouthwatering really.

Thing is we wont know how he wants us to REALLY play until hes finished the rebuilding process which for me is this summer...

GK / CM / LW at a minimum and all first team players. Once we have them in we have a strong squad, those three could make a huge difference and we now have the money to sign them. Due to players ages we then really only would need to make one or two signings each season.

I just want him to have this summer and decent money to show what he can do next season with his squad.

Imagine how different it could be with a De Gea level keeper + top notch centre midfielder and a super left winger....we know he can find the talent so lets see what he does.

Much better option for me then assess at xmas and if failing then go and get someone else in.

 

[eyeeyepopeye]

Oh deffo. A shiny thing in exchange for anything outside 1st place. But I feel the cup runs are not responsible for our terrible league form

Didn't martinez claim our poor showing last season was down to the europa league,

 

[ianefc]

Yarmolenko and Deulofeu switching sides during games is mouthwatering really.

Thing is we wont know how he wants us to REALLY play until hes finished the rebuilding process which for me is this summer...

GK / CM / LW at a minimum and all first team players. Once we have them in we have a strong squad, those three could make a huge difference and we now have the money to sign them. Due to players ages we then really only would need to make one or two signings each season.

I just want him to have this summer and decent money to show what he can do next season with his squad.

Imagine how different it could be with a De Gea level keeper + top notch centre midfielder and a super left winger....we know he can find the talent so lets see what he does.

Much better option for me then assess at xmas and if failing then go and get someone else in.

We also have to acknowledge that we will be doing very well to keep ALL our top players.

 

[roydo]

We also have to acknowledge that we will be doing very well to keep ALL our top players.

Weirdly, I am actually reasonably relaxed about that. All the key ones are on long term deals, and the new boss makes quite a difference. In other words, no need to sell.

If one plays up, they leave on our terms, not the Daily Mails.

But thats another thread. Soz.

 

[davek]

But that record 72 points you go on about would have us CL most other seasons, a feat he has not been able to reproduce or even come close too.
Did he not say when he first turned up that he would get us CL football?
I think we're well within our rights to expect this team to at least be challenging for top 4.

Well within your rights? The entitlement from supporters of a club that spend a fraction of what clubs with realistic expectations of a CL spot spend is frightening.

What 'right' do you have of expecting one of those places?

If this manager had spent £200M over the last 3 seasons I;d be there with you with a pitchfork. But he hasn't. He's made one big fee signing who has been a great value for money.

FFS. what is happening here to people?

It's utter bedlam.

 

[Brownie]

What's not to like about a piece like that? It was constructive and rolled out a critique.

I'd just counter it with a few points: the missing player Brownie spends much of his time alluding to there: isn't blindingly obvious that he's missed out the tracking of Yarmolenko in that commentary? It's not like Martinez has stood there scratching his bollocks wondering whether to play Cleverley rather then Kone. He sees the type of quicksilver presence we require. Also left out from the critique on that score was Tarashaj's purchase - a player who can drift in from wide and open up in the final third: a creative force who can play between the lines. It's not like the demise of Pienaar has been allowed to take place without thought to his succession.

Second point: style of play. I think the style of play is right in front of your eyes - hiding in plain sight: it's a counter attacking game. We play a counter attacking style for the bulk of the time and only get on the ball for long spells through necessity when the turgid teams roll up at Goodison (at which point we need that quicksilver player to make an impact and help get our noses in front and then we have a team forced to come out). I dont understand how there can be any confusion over that.

Third point: direction and leadership. It's a fair enough point because the undulations in results have been going on too long. But the performances for the vast amount of the season have been very good and worthy of much more than we've got back in terms of points. It's way more consistent than last season. The Arsenal game was mentioned to proffer a general view that we've lost direction, but that was atypical of the season as a whole. Yes, leadership is lacking...but lacking within the team. It's a massive concern that these players have no heart, no determination to roll their sleeves up in adversity. That requires the expulsion of some players and the bringing in of players with those qualities.

Six transfer windows to sign a Pienaar replacement Dave. That's a lot of thinking time.

I accept we mainly play counter attack, in fact I think you have to play on the counter with Lukaku. I could criticise Roberto for needing to be told by the players that that was the best way to use him, but I won't, because I think he'd already realised that himself. But then he has made Gareth Barry our main midfield player, who's only really good in a possession-based team, and still wants us to play out from the back all the time. That's the whole point really, perhaps he has a long-term plan, but at the moment it's a bit of a mish-mash.

All I want from him is a bit of anger and honesty. There's no emotion there at the moment. I'm sure there is underneath, but it's no good to the fans if it's not visible.

 

[peteblue]

Excellent opening post. However I am now depressed........

 

[bluewally]

I think @davek nailed it in a few paragraphs which have already been commented on many times.

The style of play is very clear and yet doesnt it occur to people that hes gradually improving the squad? 9 of the first choice 11 were developed / signed by Martinez. Should he therefore have spent £40mil on far better players than Osman or Pienaar....there hasnt been enough money and these two amongst others have been taking up wages.

Yarmolenko was of course earmarked for the left sided position but instead we have players there who cost under £5mil combined.

Its like building a house, people want to complain because it may rain but dont want to let the builders finish the roof. Also theres not the best kitchen or bathrooms but theres not enough money to upgrade...

His rebuilding has been amazing and i for one hope he has as much success this summer.

Generally you seal the roof first to make your house watertight

Otherwise the leaks will ruin all the finishing work you do

 

[Blues Harp]

Cups this season. And if that Iranian tit backs his words up by sticking his hand in his pocket, then CL spots.

Err why that description of Moshiri Dave? Why is he a "tit" and why bring "Iranian' into it? What has he done wrong ?

 

[Mickey]

I hope you can swim Bobby.