Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[hktoffee]

Genuine question here, would Moyes have a better squad than the one we have now, with the same amount of money given? He was great on transfers Moyes but could he attract big players? Lukaku, Deulofeu, Besic, McCarthy all signed because of Martinez. And look at who has left while he's been here, all deadwood except Fellaini (where we got a great deal). The argument that Martinez has been backed by the board shouldn't be used against him, because he's done well regarding ins and outs. Just need to manage them well..

I don't know no one will. But Moyes's league records at Everton spoke for himself. Literally no money to spend but dragged us from relegation battler to become a genuine top 6 PL side. Results count.

Not having a go at Martinez in my last message at all. I deem he is backed by the board. Just simple as that. And I do agree most of his signings are good.

 

[LocalNative]

Our league position is embarrassing like.

 

[oldblue]

Sigh.

League Cups - and presuming we are counting Spurs and the Horrors as 'big clubs'

Leicester, 2000
Blackburn, 2002
Middlesbrough, 2004
Birmingham, 2011
Swansea, 2013

FA Cups in the same period

Portsmouth (two cup finals as well)
(and the thing you will no doubt seize on because it is your level of posting) Wigan

I'm going to guess the Boro and Birmingham wins are McLaren / McLeish and we know it's Wobbly Chops for the Portsmouth win. He's in top company there.

so that's seven clubs with trophies in the last 16 years.

Jesus absolute christ. Leave it to Dave before you hurt yourself.

Wow. Worse than I thought. But seeing how you do seem to have a little bit of an insecurity issue over being right or wrong I can provide some tutoring in how you do basic stats analysis.
Firstly pick a representative model that can provide you with a balanced set of results to analyse.
Then you need to analyse not just raw data but influencing factors. For instance your constant references to goal assists and goals scored to prove a point on Mirallas could probably do with looking at performance of all key players both ours and opposition when he is on the pitch and not. Bit complicated probably but a simpler thing that would help a bit might be to look at when he scores or assists. Take a median rather than average as it'll provide more accuracy and see if there's a pattern in terms of his influence on a game.
But this is when the work starts because you have to make sure you are not confirming a previously held notion or all your work is invalid.
Let's look at your stats on the cups. You've started from a point when teams outside the rich clubs won. Why? What's the relevance unless you want to skewer the truth.
I'd suggest a sample going back to the start of the premier league may at least have some relevance. You want to do that? I have. It's not good reading for clubs outside the elite.
If you add in the premier league it gets much worse.
The league cup is the only thing that balances it out and that's mainly because most elite clubs barely see it as a major trophy. Even then your odds every season are very poor.
Anyway keep up the efforts. It'll be worth it in the long term

 

[deipnosophist]

After the Arsenal game was the first time he's actually come out and said we were piss poor, but he then went and spoilt it by saying that that performance was a "one off"

For the first time in beards, the man was almost honest; but charlatan habits diehard.
When asked directly whether he would address 'man to man' the playing personnel's jellyfish performance, he tangented immediately, talking about how we missed Gareth Barry.
I remain astounded that a man who has the nous of a Tim Sherwood, remains at the helm of our club.
I do not remain astounded that certain Evertonians retain their affection toward him.
....All families have members who we should accommodate with forebearance

 

[blue61]

For the first time in beards, the man was almost honest; but charlatan habits diehard.
When asked directly whether he would question 'man to man' the playing personnel's jellyfish performance, he tangented immediately, talking about how we missed Gareth Barry.
I remain astounded that a man who has the nous of a Tim Sherwood, remains at the helm of our club.
I do not remain astounded that certain Evertonians retain their affection toward him.
....All families have members who we should accommodate with forebearance

He's our Uncle Knobhead.

 

[Ashtonian]

Genuine question here, would Moyes have a better squad than the one we have now, with the same amount of money given? He was great on transfers Moyes but could he attract big players? Lukaku, Deulofeu, Besic, McCarthy all signed because of Martinez. And look at who has left while he's been here, all deadwood except Fellaini (where we got a great deal). The argument that Martinez has been backed by the board shouldn't be used against him, because he's done well regarding ins and outs. Just need to manage them well..

No.

Moyes issue wasn't cash, it was his approach to games. Many a season what held us back were fearing the other team, and i don't think money would have solved that issue here. Hell he still done it at united when he could spent 30 odd million on a player like mata. So no, no matter how much money you gave moyes, i doubt he would have ever genuinely broke that 5th place ceiling he made for himself.

 

[HuddersfieldToffee]

To be fair, some of his backroom staff appointments have been strange.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

For the first time in beards, the man was almost honest; but charlatan habits diehard.
When asked directly whether he would address 'man to man' the playing personnel's jellyfish performance, he tangented immediately, talking about how we missed Gareth Barry.
I remain astounded that a man who has the nous of a Tim Sherwood, remains at the helm of our club.
I do not remain astounded that certain Evertonians retain their affection toward him.
....All families have members who we should accommodate with forebearance

This is why I started hoping we would send someone else out to do the post match interviews, because he wasn't helping himself with some of the crap he spouted.

 

[Igrok]

Where's that ying yang martinez/Moyes picture. A hybrid of the two would lead to the best footy in the league.

Defensive Wigan will be scary mate...

 

[deipnosophist]

No.

Moyes issue wasn't cash, it was his approach to games. Many a season what held us back were fearing the other team, and i don't think money would have solved that issue here. Hell he still done it at united when he could spent 30 odd million on a player like mata. So no, no matter how much money you gave moyes, i doubt he would have ever genuinely broke that 5th place ceiling he made for himself.

I struggle to comprehend why Moyes enters the discussion.
He is not any way forward
....neither is R Martinez

 

[Ashtonian]

This is why I started hoping we would send someone else out to do the post match interviews, because he wasn't helping himself with some of the crap he spouts.

It is slightly concerning to hear your manager talk about the team not playing well but suggesting it is down to missing the 35 year old in the middle.

what i think anyway, a 35 year old should not be depended on in any case, unless they are between the sticks.

 

[a bell maul]

I struggle to comprehend why Moyes enters the discussion.
He is not any way forward
....neither is R Martinez

...because you are a plotter mate.
Booby's record speaks for itself

 

[orly]

Wow. Worse than I thought. But seeing how you do seem to have a little bit of an insecurity issue over being right or wrong I can provide some tutoring in how you do basic stats analysis.
Firstly pick a representative model that can provide you with a balanced set of results to analyse.
Then you need to analyse not just raw data but influencing factors. For instance your constant references to goal assists and goals scored to prove a point on Mirallas could probably do with looking at performance of all key players both ours and opposition when he is on the pitch and not. Bit complicated probably but a simpler thing that would help a bit might be to look at when he scores or assists. Take a median rather than average as it'll provide more accuracy and see if there's a pattern in terms of his influence on a game.
But this is when the work starts because you have to make sure you are not confirming a previously held notion or all your work is invalid.
Let's look at your stats on the cups. You've started from a point when teams outside the rich clubs won. Why? What's the relevance unless you want to skewer the truth.
I'd suggest a sample going back to the start of the premier league may at least have some relevance. You want to do that? I have. It's not good reading for clubs outside the elite.
If you add in the premier league it gets much worse.
The league cup is the only thing that balances it out and that's mainly because most elite clubs barely see it as a major trophy. Even then your odds every season are very poor.
Anyway keep up the efforts. It'll be worth it in the long term

So you've got the evidence, and ignored it because it doesn't suit you? 16 years, 7 non-rich clubs winning trophies. It's there, just for you mate.

Start of the Premier League? Ah, but football wasn't invented in 1992. I just gave you 16 years for ease.

Never mind mate, back to sucking up to Dave and making weird comments about 'Super Kev'.

For instance your constant references to goal assists and goals scored to prove a point on Mirallas could probably do with looking at performance of all key players both ours and opposition when he is on the pitch and not. Bit complicated probably but a simpler thing that would help a bit might be to look at when he scores or assists. Take a median rather than average as it'll provide more accuracy and see if there's a pattern in terms of his influence on a game.

In fact, yet again, you've referenced him here lol in a Martinez thread lol

Keep up the rants mate, sorry for mods and not using ignore function correctly

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

It is slightly concerning to hear your manager talk about the team not playing well but suggesting it is down to missing the 35 year old in the middle.

what i think anyway, a 35 year old should not be depended on in any case, unless they are between the sticks.

He's a phenomenal 35 year old though mate.

 

[oldblue]

So you've got the evidence, and ignored it because it doesn't suit you? 16 years, 7 non-rich clubs winning trophies. It's there, just for you mate.

Start of the Premier League? Ah, but football wasn't invented in 1992. I just gave you 16 years for ease.

Never mind mate, back to sucking up to Dave and making weird comments about 'Super Kev'.



In fact, yet again, you've referenced him here lol

Keep up the rants mate

I can only offer help. You can only accept or refuse