Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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davek said:
Football is all about winning silverware. There's no other measuring rod. Getting competitive in the top half means nothing to me. We've had it and it's unrewarding.

I think the problem here is that theres a whole generation that's not experienced what it feels like to win a trophy, so they're conned into believing that a pat on the head for finishing top half in the sooper dooper Barclays Premier League is some kind of achievement. It isn't. it's nothing whatsoever. I could give a flying one about a 5th place finish. I never underlined it as an achievement for Martinez or anyone else.
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Yes the point is winning stuff, I agree completely and again, to reiterate, I want us to win the cup in May.

My gripe is that this appears to be at the cost of league form, and the only way we will be able to attract top players is by getting into Europe consistently, and mainly through the league - otherwise I fear our best players will not stick around, or we will not attract good players, and it will be another 21 years before we get the next cup.

I want to win the FA Cup, I just fear it is at the expense of the league form.
 
Early this morn I had a coffee & a convo - sophisticat that I am - with two ex-colleagues, one a blue, one a WIGAN fan...and as interesting as it was I came away a'pondering the following two points raised during...

A) The WIGAN fan had a BOSS day out at their final, loved it, loved everything about it, states it was joyous & shocking in equal measure...yet now generally wishes it hadn't really happened as he'd much sooner they'd remained in the PREM (or tried to) because, as he suggests, he feels the club are no longer sellable nor appealing being in the division they are, in short, outside the prem no-one's really arsed and he accepts this... Now, I get this, to a point...but a trophy's a trophy though, yes? That said, it seems he'd sacrifice ALL that for the possibility of a either remaining in, or not being so far behind, the big boys...and, with a hint of mischief a la Dave, I mentioned our 72 points. His answer was 'And what, what did it get ya?' Very astute. Pfffff..... he also mentioned our defensive record in relation to theirs during RM's time...flagging up BRUCE's reign and how a similar frailty edged in when he went as it has done with us with BOB at the helm...'coincidence?' I asked. 'No fuppin' way' was the polite version of the response...

B) The second point, relating to yet slightly away from the above, was a question about possible player preference, in particular relation to LUKAKU I suppose. And the question, when stripped back, was basically what would be more likely to keep LUKAKU at the club - an FA CUP medal or a 5th place finish married to CLEAR indication that the club are on the up? Namely a medal or a real feeling that he's part of something that's REALLY going somewhere and has real, solid, potential for silverware etc.... as opposed to becoming perhaps the highest scorer in a side that's finished 14th and with (perhaps) a manager who he may have lost faith in?

Not sure I know the answer to that TBH.

Suppose we'll find out next season.
 
The higher the league placing, the more the cash. Going to be even more important as we move into the new TV deal.

That's one of the reasons that fifth is better than fifteenth.
 

QUOTE="Bally8, post: 4320950, member: 7051"]I was starting to sway that way, but those stats about his teams here and at Wigan... He will never learn[/QUOTE]
He is young ( for a PL manager), and to say he will never learn is bit unyielding.
My beef with him is : I don't want him learning at Everton.
Learn somewhere else R Martinez....and re-present your CV when you've shown some track record.

(and to pre-empt the cultists who proclaim his FA Cup victory...I'll counteract that with his relegation record)

and to pre-empt his apologists presenting his 72 points record haul....we were 7 points below 4th.

Bottom line: R Martinez is a novice manager with a beguiling demeanour. In my opinion, he is so far out of his depth in his job at EFC, the Marianas Trench, in comparison, appears a paddling pool.
 
davek said:
Football is all about winning silverware. There's no other measuring rod. Getting competitive in the top half means nothing to me. We've had it and it's unrewarding.

I think the problem here is that theres a whole generation that's not experienced what it feels like to win a trophy, so they're conned into believing that a pat on the head for finishing top half in the sooper dooper Barclays Premier League is some kind of achievement. It isn't. it's nothing whatsoever. I could give a flying one about a 5th place finish. I never underlined it as an achievement for Martinez or anyone else.
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I'll remind you of this when we tamely get beat in the semi final. Again.
 
Guys, guys, we've got to decide. 72pts was something good or it wasn't, as top half finishes mean something, or they mean nothing. We have to be consistent, not fickle to bend it to the argument..
For some strange reason I feel people's perception of Everton changed due to Moyes's persistent finishing in the higher echelons of the league. Maybe that's just in my head? Not sure why plays picked us over any variety of non-monied teams... are there some inconvenient truths regards to finishing position even if CL or league wins aren't achieved?
 
Blue Cheese said:
It's bizarre how some are putting the man above the wants of the club. Anyone who is genuinely ok with our league performance baffles me, and 72points 3 seasons ago means diddly squat, he should be judged on current performance always and fact is, its not good enough, genuinely not good enough
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Total misrepresentation.

Let's say that we had brought in a manager of the same type of Moyes - defence first. Solid platform.

The 'Cult' would be not be in existence.

The reason 'we' believe there are mitigating circumstances for the league performance is because of the bigger picture, the mitigating circumstances. There is no point repeating them because they have been presented numerous times.

Give the manager cash (both in terms of transfer fees and wage structure) and then his performance can be analysed fairly. Once we get to that point, and league standings are consistently still 'meh' then the Cult will disband faster than an Everton counter-attack.
 

TheHumbleEgg said:
B) The second point, relating to yet slightly away from the above, was a question about possible player preference, in particular relation to LUKAKU I suppose. And the question, when stripped back, was basically what would be more likely to keep LUKAKU at the club - an FA CUP medal or a 5th place finish married to CLEAR indication that the club are on the up? .
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The rest I largely agree with - but I don't think either would keep Lukaku if the big PSG type bid comes in.

Three years is fairly standard fare for players like him, we'll make a monster profit, will lament him leaving for certain.
 
See Martinez is not happy with the date of the derby just before the semi, I know why it is in case we lose to Liverpool then lose the semi in the same week, the fans will turn nasty on him then and he knows it
 
kiss the crest said:
See Martinez is not happy with the date of the derby just before the semi, I know why it is in case we lose to Liverpool then lose the semi in the same week, the fans will turn nasty on him then and he knows it
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Nah, much more likely he's in a very difficult position - rest players for the Derby (a sin Moyes was rightly castigated for) and lose and he's in major trouble.

Player our best team, lose and he's got a tired team for the biggest game of the season remaining.

But win... well who knows?

The semi is the massively bigger game but we will win at Anfield anyways. Best team for both.
 
Is it not possible that despite all the arguments either way, there is the slight chance that Martinez just isn't good enough? You know the possibility that not every manager has to be brilliant and worth backing for 11 years at a time?

Seems to be lost that point i think, so much arguments either side yet just like a player, no-one really considers that they might not actually be that good in the end?
 

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