Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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deipnosophist said:
QUOTE="Bally8, post: 4320950, member: 7051"]I was starting to sway that way, but those stats about his teams here and at Wigan... He will never learn
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He is young ( for a PL manager), and to say he will never learn is bit unyielding.
My beef with him is : I don't want him learning at Everton.
Learn somewhere else R Martinez....and re-present your CV when you've shown some track record.

(and to pre-empt the cultists who proclaim his FA Cup victory...I'll counteract that with his relegation record)

and to pre-empt his apologists presenting his 72 points record haul....we were 7 points below 4th.

Bottom line: R Martinez is a novice manager with a beguiling demeanour. In my opinion, he is so far out of his depth in his job at EFC, the Marianas Trench, in comparison, appears a paddling pool.[/QUOTE]

i'm on your side with this, or should that be you are on mine
but he's hardly a novice
he should've shown some signs of improving...a little

he'd be out of his depth on a damp pavement
 
Groucho said:
Yes the point is winning stuff, I agree completely and again, to reiterate, I want us to win the cup in May.

My gripe is that this appears to be at the cost of league form, and the only way we will be able to attract top players is by getting into Europe consistently, and mainly through the league - otherwise I fear our best players will not stick around, or we will not attract good players, and it will be another 21 years before we get the next cup.

I want to win the FA Cup, I just fear it is at the expense of the league form.
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The cups always have been and always will be a distraction away from the league. A chance for the minnows if you will to pit their wits against the big boys in the early rounds and see how they progress. Also a chance for the other sides in the top flight to get to Wembley, give their fans a day out and try and win a pot.

The league form always has for the top sides been the priority, this is indisputable IMO

All that is happening here in this debate, is the poster you have responded to is trying to derail from that either deliberately, or because he cannot see the woods for the trees, as it is all he has left in his locker due to the horse which he backed failing in all other areas of his points he puts across as the season has worn on.

Say for instance Martinez actually set out to have a go at the cups at the expense of league form, which I don't believe for one moment he did! That in itself is a very dangerous game to play if that was his strategy, as Wigan later went on to find out. A club who had established themselves in the PL until he rolled into town and promptly had them relegated.

He seemed like a worthy gamble at first as he had won a trophy and was as much of a candidate as any others at the time. Sadly it's all going sour, many saw it earlier than others on here and the ones that didn't see it and thought he deserved time are now making silly arguments and really making a mockery this thread with stubborn and childlike rants against the facts which have been put before them.

At Liverpool, spurs, or any other clubs we see ourselves in direct competition to normally, he would have been potted by now.
 
mkrudden said:
Total misrepresentation.

Let's say that we had brought in a manager of the same type of Moyes - defence first. Solid platform.

The 'Cult' would be not be in existence.

The reason 'we' believe there are mitigating circumstances for the league performance is because of the bigger picture, the mitigating circumstances. There is no point repeating them because they have been presented numerous times.

Give the manager cash (both in terms of transfer fees and wage structure) and then his performance can be analysed fairly. Once we get to that point, and league standings are consistently still 'meh' then the Cult will disband faster than an Everton counter-attack.
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He's had cash and we have headed backwards.
The other guy you mentioned had no cash and took us fowards
 
Ashtonian said:
Is it not possible that despite all the arguments either way, there is the slight chance that Martinez just isn't good enough? You know the possibility that not every manager has to be brilliant and worth backing for 11 years at a time?

Seems to be lost that point i think, so much arguments either side yet just like a player, no-one really considers that they might not actually be that good in the end?
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Isn't it as much a question of whether sacking him right now would see an improvement.
I've not seen any fans denying his flaws. But I've yet to see a manager without them. Never been a question of a great manager or not but the right manager at that time for that situation.
I wouldn't have brought him in but I genuinely believe we are at a point where gambling by sacking him is more worrying for me than gambling by keeping him. Especially as one of those situations can be changed at any given point.
 
orly said:
The rest I largely agree with - but I don't think either would keep Lukaku if the big PSG type bid comes in.

Three years is fairly standard fare for players like him, we'll make a monster profit, will lament him leaving for certain.
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....sadly, I don't blame him if he does but I think it's gonna leave us destined to always ponder the 'what if's'.

Still, when POOKY finally gets NIASSE fit...whoosh....watch him GO-GO-Goooooooo....!!!!

*RecoupHalfTheFeeIfLucky
 

degsy said:
I have always argued for 'The Goldilocks Option' - not too much Martinez, not too much Moyes, but just right

or in your speak...somebody with cash to take us forward.
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Yep.. or all of both, get em both managing, we will either be incredible clean sheets and scoring 3 goals a game, or it will got he other way and we will end up with a Martinez defence and a Moyes attack ;)
 
Adam18 said:
You can't compare Wigan to us. He performed miracles every year keeping them in the league and winning the fa cup. Surely if he wins us the cup this year that is a success?
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You can absolutely compare Wigan to us. Let us not forget that Moyes had players sold everywhere around him, didn't sign a first team player for many windows in a row and our league form did not drop. Martinez took a team that was 11th the year he took over to barely escaping relegation when the money there went.
 

bluestevon said:
BTW Dave another of your favourite targets Jagielka - games he hasn't played 11 we conceded 18 in those games - 1.7 conceded per game

Heres another stat for you then mate, you've quoted a fair few back then so don't think you will mind this.

We have had 3 utter collapses this season in Bournmouth, Stoke and West Ham - noticable Baines didn't play in any of those 3 games, Jagielka missed 2 of them also

BTW Dave - pretty sure that tough start that people talked about was not just the first two months of fixtures but was the first 10 games - which would have included the games against Arsenal and United, putting your line before those two ofc does miss out two losses and 1 scored 5 conceded from the stats doesn't it?

just as an interesting point though, oviedo played 1 game in that run at the start of the season in the game Galloway missed - galloway played the other 9, and Browning played 3 games and one half against city

so as for the having two of Oviedo, galloway or Browning operating in the back 4 for the most part of it as you stated - no we didn't, we had out the first 8 games (including the derby) exactly 3 and one half games that had two of those in defence and we had 4 1/2 games without two of them playing, so basically your wrong.

But think i have everything now from you, Evertons defence is bad because Tyias Browning is injured is effectively your argument now LOL


OR here is another take on what happened mate, but you won't want to think this could be true, Jagielka played 90 minutes in every one of those first two months games and John Stones - yanno that bloke you reckon can't play cb and is a holding midfielder really, started the first 6 of them

Is Baines at anythign close to his best form and level for us - pobviously not, but the people who are trying everything they can do to try to hold him and to another extent Jagielka as responsible for the defensive problems in order to protect the only thing they care about at the club - the manager - is absolutely shameful, stats don't back any of it up mate, Baines has been more creative than the other options at fb - he has made as many 'defensive actions' as they have also, and the goals cocneded per game when he has played are the lowest than the other fb's.

You would make a fantastic, amazing, phenomenal manager though in the style of Rodgers and martinez mate, you have no compunction about throwing any player udner the bus regardless of the facts or stats that show you to be wrong
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He was arguing that we couldn't break down sides at home because Tarashaj (?) wasn't yet ready for the first team. Lost it.
 

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