Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Mickey]

No need for the gnashing lids, Moshys got this. Wait for the start of the Euros to distract, the he will quickly but firmly shoe Bobby all the way to lime street and send him to his next job in Scotland. Dundee Utd being my bet.

 

[deipnosophist]

He's a phenomenal 35 year old though mate.

@LinekersLegs likes this

 

[Ashtonian]

I struggle to comprehend why Moyes enters the discussion.
He is not any way forward
....neither is R Martinez

I think the idea comes from the basis that formerly we had a manager who was not backed, and now we have one who does. The eternal what if scenario, only solvable by bringing moyes back and even then the goalposts have moved.

I think the problems or issues we have suffered from in the past 15 years have been on the pitch, not how much we have spent. We are losing games on the pitch currently, and the team was fearing the other team on the pitch.

 

[mkrudden]

You are obviously not seeing the point being made, deliberately. Or you are not as intelligent as you think

lollollollol

Oh mate.

Ah I see, so you're talking about the lottery of who we get round to round. That's a fair point.

So, you think a side is better judged over league performance?

Question:

Would you rather we finish 5th this season, hypothetically of course, or win the FA Cup?

But you're definitely right. I'm not that intelligent.

 

[TheFinnFan]

It's more a concern that the league is somehow not at the top of his list of priorities.

A cup would be fantastic, even the league cup would've been good enough, BUT not at the expense of the league. I'm not expecting to win it, but I wasn't hoping for (what's looking like) two consecutive lower half seasons.

Yes. It doesnt look good but he has time to show that he can develope him self. If he doesnt bring it ( inside of 5 games ) I believe it is mainly due the fact that players have turned against him and his time is up.

If he fails to impress we have to make sure that protests are massive enough that we 'll get new manager in in the summer

 

[oldblue]

Keep up the rants mate, sorry for mods and not using ignore function correctly

You can ignore and you can also not reply to a post not aimed at you if you're so worried you may get a rational reply back that you don't like

 

[Adam18]

Let's see who he brings in this summer withsome money

 

[bluestevon]

Context is all that matters there. You can concede when completely in control and the opposition gets a consolation, for example.

If you look at the first two months of this season when we had that tough start, but we were solid through it, we had at least two from Oviedo, Galloway or Browning operating in the back four for the most part of it. It provided the base for attacking and an element of security to hold onto the rewards of our attacking. Up to the derby in October, we'd had just one defeat, scored 12 and conceded 8. After that point the option of turning regularly to those three wasn't there as injury hit them. Thereafter, results became erratic. We settled down again only with the return to action of Oviedo after the new year.

How you can try and throw a shield up in front of Baines this season is beyond me. If you think Baines is on song then your expectations about what we should be getting out of a FB is staggeringly low. For the most part he's been ineffective, and he's absolutely stunk the place out at times. We've had the best out of him. He's a defender who cant defend and there's no room for that in any PL team anymore.

BTW Dave another of your favourite targets Jagielka - games he hasn't played 11 we conceded 18 in those games - 1.7 conceded per game

Heres another stat for you then mate, you've quoted a fair few back then so don't think you will mind this.

We have had 3 utter collapses this season in Bournmouth, Stoke and West Ham - noticable Baines didn't play in any of those 3 games, Jagielka missed 2 of them also

BTW Dave - pretty sure that tough start that people talked about was not just the first two months of fixtures but was the first 10 games - which would have included the games against Arsenal and United, putting your line before those two ofc does miss out two losses and 1 scored 5 conceded from the stats doesn't it?

just as an interesting point though, oviedo played 1 game in that run at the start of the season in the game Galloway missed - galloway played the other 9, and Browning played 3 games and one half against city

so as for the having two of Oviedo, galloway or Browning operating in the back 4 for the most part of it as you stated - no we didn't, we had out the first 8 games (including the derby) exactly 3 and one half games that had two of those in defence and we had 4 1/2 games without two of them playing, so basically your wrong.

But think i have everything now from you, Evertons defence is bad because Tyias Browning is injured is effectively your argument now LOL


OR here is another take on what happened mate, but you won't want to think this could be true, Jagielka played 90 minutes in every one of those first two months games and John Stones - yanno that bloke you reckon can't play cb and is a holding midfielder really, started the first 6 of them

Is Baines at anythign close to his best form and level for us - pobviously not, but the people who are trying everything they can do to try to hold him and to another extent Jagielka as responsible for the defensive problems in order to protect the only thing they care about at the club - the manager - is absolutely shameful, stats don't back any of it up mate, Baines has been more creative than the other options at fb - he has made as many 'defensive actions' as they have also, and the goals cocneded per game when he has played are the lowest than the other fb's.

You would make a fantastic, amazing, phenomenal manager though in the style of Rodgers and martinez mate, you have no compunction about throwing any player udner the bus regardless of the facts or stats that show you to be wrong

 

[deipnosophist]

I think the idea comes from the basis that formerly we had a manager who was not backed, and now we have one who does. The eternal what if scenario, only solvable by bringing moyes back and even then the goalposts have moved.

I think the problems or issues we have suffered from in the past 15 years have been on the pitch, not how much we have spent. We are losing games on the pitch currently, and the team was fearing the other team on the pitch.

Moyes is a cultist distraction, propounded to misdirect energies
R Martinez's short-comings are the on-topic herein

I reckon we give R Martinez until next Xmas...

....and if we are not doing so well at that stage....

the Xmas after.

...after all, he got us fifth 2 seasons ago....

 

[Bally8]

Let's see who he brings in this summer withsome money

I was starting to sway that way, but those stats about his teams here and at Wigan... He will never learn

 

[Adam18]

You can't compare Wigan to us. He performed miracles every year keeping them in the league and winning the fa cup. Surely if he wins us the cup this year that is a success?

 

[Blue Cheese]

If for arguments sake Martinez wins the cup, which adds in some way to our great club. Has he not taken us forward? Like Joe Royle or should we just write him off before he has the chance?

I don't think it will make up for 2 seasons of mediocrity no. He owes us that cup

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Genuine question here, would Moyes have a better squad than the one we have now, with the same amount of money given? He was great on transfers Moyes but could he attract big players? Lukaku, Deulofeu, Besic, McCarthy all signed because of Martinez. And look at who has left while he's been here, all deadwood except Fellaini (where we got a great deal). The argument that Martinez has been backed by the board shouldn't be used against him, because he's done well regarding ins and outs. Just need to manage them well..

I'm sure he'd have got Besic, McCarthy, Kone, Barry & Lukaku . Deulofeu & Mori I'd be doubtful of. Alcaraz he wouldn't have wanted, I reckon.

It's a question of:

A/ If he'd wanted any of the above (Bar alcaraz)

B/ If Lukaku would've have scored as many under moyles, and

C/ If Barkley & Stones have played as many games as they have by now.

But if we'd been where we are with this squad under moyles, he'd have been under severe pressure by now. Be in no doubt about that.

As far as deadwood goes, we still have osman, pienaar, hibbert, gibson etc

 

[davek]

However, Royle found us in very different circumstances - quite literally last. He took us to a cup win and the top half, top 6 in fact.

Martinez found us in 6th, and, first season apart, has got us to two semi finals and heading towards two bottom half finished, consecutively.

I agree a trophy wound be ace, and I really hope we do it - I'm not happy with the league pkavings and performances thigh.

To be clear, I do not want to see Smith or Moyes negative football, and I want is to with the cup - I do though want us to be competing at the top end of the league and qualifying for Europe through that - we were, and now we're not.

Football is all about winning silverware. There's no other measuring rod. Getting competitive in the top half means nothing to me. We've had it and it's unrewarding.

I think the problem here is that theres a whole generation that's not experienced what it feels like to win a trophy, so they're conned into believing that a pat on the head for finishing top half in the sooper dooper Barclays Premier League is some kind of achievement. It isn't. it's nothing whatsoever. I could give a flying one about a 5th place finish. I never underlined it as an achievement for Martinez or anyone else.

 

[davek]

So much wrong with this, and if for a moment I thought you were being genuine I'd bother to respond in kind. Instead I'll just highlight it.

No, go on. Where have I slipped up in saying that? I cant wait to hear the reason why it wouldn't be so.