Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[bluestevon]

Jagilelka has been lambasted by me because of his lack of leadership and organising qualities, not because of his own game. Just a major point you completely missed out there in your rush to see a contradiction that wan't there. And so what Jagielka and Stones were in the team early on; my point was that a flatter back four and less adventurous FBs was the clue to our very decent early season form. And, btw, you're not suggesting are you that Stones wasn't correctly left out for his season turning into piss?

You're countering of my point regarding personnel operating in the back four up to the derby is a fair one: I'd said the three I mentioned had played together in some permutation in all 8 games. They hadn't. So I take that back. It was three, so a minority. What was a feature of the period up to the derby, however, was the amount of game time Galloway, Browning and to a lesser extent Oviedo got in that period. Also we had Funes Mori stepping into Coleman's position on one occasion. We cant do without that. If there's one thing that was demonstrated in that period is that we dont need the Coleman/Baines FB tandem to get results.

Actually if you'd watched us early season properly dave you would have seen that Galloway bombed forward a fair bit, it's why in games like Stoke they badly exposed the space behind him - happened in a couple of games and was probably the reason his confidence seemed to get dented.

Stones was correctly left out of the team by the manager, the same one who has instilled such a mentality in him that has him neglecting the basic role he is supposed to be in the team for (defending) in favour of 'expressing' himself - sorry mate but as much as Martinez deserves a lot of credit for bringing Stones along quickly - he also deserves criticsm for handling his development this season terribly - and that comes through Bobbies 'philosophy' being the sole important thing for him

OK so lets break this down, you are saying that a team managed by Martinez cannot play with attacking fullbacks?
Despite the fact we play 2 cb's and 2 defensive mids and only one winger - we also now need to play 2 defensive minded fullbacks to even approach anythign like having a defence ... Just how bad is Martinez at organising a defence then mate if you think his teams are only able to play with 3 and at most 4 none defense minded players in the team?

So we need a top keeper, 2 defensive fullbacks, 2 cb's, 2 holding midfielders and maybe a defensive wide player - Good God we are the entertainers aren't we LOL

 

[Ihaters]

An example is west ham sack fat Sam and get billic and now they're flying of and on the field. And we're in limbo and will be until Martinez is swerved.

There are to be fair, plenty of examples of the other way round.

 

[COYBL25]

Back four plus GK will be reconstituted in the summer. No question of that.

For me: out would go Baines and Stones. Coleman would just about be retained given his performances all told this season. Keep Jagileka but take the armband off him. Funes Mori and Galloway retain. Bring in a new RB cover and a LB. Bring in a CB who can lead and organise his defence and a top GK.

That would sort it.

Biggest WUM of the year so far, well in Dave

 

[maccavennie]

Biggest WUM of the year so far, well in Dave

lol some changes them. Easiest option is to get rid of Martinez and just find a manager who knows how to drill a defence

 

[Blues Harp]

I would agree that C is sadly the only answer at this point.

Our petulant fans will not be satisfied with anything else. There is no coming back at this point...the atmosphere will only continue to get worse even if we are winning stuff.

listen mate - lay off the fans will you please - its becoming annoying ...

 

[ilikecheese]

listen mate - lay off the fans will you please - its becoming annoying ...

No mate...they deserve some criticism.

 

[davek]

I don't think anybody is downgrading the F.A. Cup. But it should not be used to gauge the managers performance as progression in the competition depends allot on who you draw

You dont think anyone's downgrading the FA Cup...then you proceed to do so.

 

[davek]

The unit the manager has no interest in you mean, or more realistically has no clue what to do with, either way yes it needs sorting, but Roberto isn't the man to do that.

Well, he's going to be the only man around to sort it, so let's hope he buys well again and a leader on the pitch is part of the deal.

 

[Blues Harp]

No mate...they deserve some criticism.

No mate they don't - its your view ok but you are just so wrong

 

[bluestevon]

Well, he's going to be the only man around to sort it, so let's hope he buys well again and a leader on the pitch is part of the deal.

yeah he has only had 3 years to find a 'leader' on the pitch and bring him in hasn't he mate, or even work with the players we have to develop one of them into it...

He did sign his old captain at Wigan though - Alcaraz was his name - tremendous leader on the pitch, led the team by example to a couple of the most embarrasing losses ever in the derby and kiev games

IF Martinez stays in the job can't wait to see who this leader he will sign will be though

 

[bluestevon]

An example is west ham sack fat Sam and get billic and now they're flying of and on the field. And we're in limbo and will be until Martinez is swerved.

But, But, But WE ARE THE ENTERTAINERS mate, everyone says so

 

[ilikecheese]

No mate they don't - its your view ok but you are just so wrong

Nah the over the top protestations from some on here would show a guilty conscience in my eyes. We all know the place is a morgue more often than not. Imagine moaning at boss young players like Rom, Ross, Stones, etc when they make a mistake. Have a word with yourself...those doing that are just crushing those player's confidence.

 

[davek]

How is it an entitled mindset Dave? It's a tier based league system (aren't they all), and we're WAY underperforming in the top tier of it, surely you appreciate why it's a 'thing' for fans to wish/want us to finish as high up in that tier as possible...for no other reason than because it's the most basic example of palpable progression, it's there to see and it's based on continuity, consistency & progress and NOT (as can happen) based on a spunky little cup run (which is ace also BTW)...

A cup win - as fantastic as it'll be (crosses fingers/balls/etc) - simply isn't necessarily a set-in-stone benchmark for that sort of progression see RM's previous employ amongst others)...

A mix of both would be grand eh...

Yes, I do. What I dont appreciate is the belief that a season that has us at midtable and doing very nicely in both cup competitions is evidence that this manager has to go.

Now if that isn't entitlement, I dont know what is.

I repeat an obvious and inconvenient truth on this issue: Martinez is being asked on here to get over a massively higher bar than any other Everton manager that we we've had for decades in order to maintain his position.

It's not on and I doubt very much whether anyone in a decision making capacity at Goodison feels it is either. The twitters and bloggers (who went missing after the Chelsea game) and the numb nuts 'media experts' looking to make a few quid with a controversial statement on our manager (dossers that they are) are irrelevant.

 

[Toffeelover]

Dave is waving the flag

 

[Carlito]

No mate...they deserve some criticism.

Unfortunately there are certain things you need to take into account when contriving connections to teams hundreds of miles away.

The natives have their own ways of doing things, and although the Woolification of the fan base is well and truly under way, I fear we're still at least a decade away from choreographed atmospheres.