Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Groucho]

It's why I've changed my view. I think he has to go in the summer now. Our petulant fans will only make things worse if he is here next season.

Mate people have a right to not be happy with the manager - I'm not for a start. It's not being petulant.

hide behind your couch lad ...you know sod all about EFC fans....Bye bye

Correct.

This has been interpreted by some as being detrimental to fans abroad. Lads if so, this is not fair to every foreign supporter, it really ain't.

 

[Goat]

Whats that supposed to mean?

You know what it means.

 

[ianefc]

Mate people have a right to not be happy with the manager - I'm not for a start.



Lads this is not fair to every foreign supporter, it really ain't.

I'm not sure what I said about people who do/don't have the right to be happy with the manager?

 

[roydo]

...a surprising piece pf luck...over 38 games of football.

Lol.

So Leicester havnt fluked their league position then?

 

[Hangleton]

Worst home defence in Europe sums it up. Total failure at the most important aspect of putting together a successful team.

 

[davek]

You're wrong. Again. Just because he was exceptional offensively doesn't mean he was never a solid defender as well; it was just that we used his offensive game a lot more than his defensive one.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor.../leighton-baines-special-report-stats-3332143

http://eplindex.com/24598/baines-continues-to-excel-stats-analysis.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...d-must-start-leighton-baines-over-ashley-cole

You're on a boss run of wrongness though. Impressive really.

It seems from that we're supposed to see Baines as a defensive giant because in one season his tackling stats went from one every 55 minutes to one in every 48 minutes. And the passing stats in his own half: well not everyone had a player like Pienaar standing four yards from them all their career.

Look, the charge is quite simple and is NOT contradicted by those links: Baines' prowess has never been his defending, it's his attacking that gained him plaudits. I'm saying that now he doesn't even offer us an attacking game anymore. When is the last time he did any decent overlapping, swung in a cross or put i a set piece?

You're kidding yourself if you think that's still there. It isn't and his tracking back is completely hopeless now. He's not come back from injury the same player and he's had ages to put his form right.

Dont get this Baines stuff mixed up with the Martinez debate. Take a different view on the manager than me? Fine. But dont let that get in the way of the blindingly obvious fact that Baines has stunk this season.

Again I ask: 'tell me I'm wrong'.

 

[Groucho]

I'm not sure what I said about people who do/don't have the right to be happy with the manager?

It was more the agreement with the other post, implying that foreign fans are somewhat lesser blues.

If this was not your intention then fair enough, no problem.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Whoa whoa, it's not a data set, it's bullet points underlining the contradiction between factual statements and some newly minted core beliefs.

• 72 points one season, finishing 5th.
• 11th and lower league before and after it, with 2 good cup runs in 7-8 years.

There you go, easier to understand with bullet points?

...a surprising piece pf luck...over 38 games of football.

Lol.

No Dave, you have your big data set, you're looking at it as you want though, not logically.

38 games of football we were good in, over one season.
Out of a total of roughly 120, during which we were occasionally good, and mostly dire.
Or if you look at it by seasons - less than 50 points in all other season, and 72 in one isolated one, then continuing the trend of less and less points.

Fluke it is, and you're being obtuse or stubborn, or both.

Amazed you can't see how illogical your own statement is.

 

[orly]

Paul Jewells win rate as Wigan Manager 43.64%
Roblerto Fartinezs win rate as Wigan Manager 29.1%

Imagine having the same resources to work with as Paul Jewell and actually managing to do worse.

Dear lord, it was mad / bad enough we hired this fraud - but to give him a new deal after one season ...

 

[riddick]

It doesn't alter the facts mate:

That 72 points (no matter how much it's buried or 'explained' with recourse to Moyes' Magic Beans) is still our largest PL points total by some distance and proves that this manager is capable of much more in the PL than this

That we're at Wembley and TWO results away from ending a 21 year wait for a trophy

That the only indication we have from anyone in power (i.e. NOT some nobhead like Barton or Merson or "True Blue Gwladys Street Blogger" or whatever the friggin' hell the self important bells call themselves) is that he's a great manager


They are the incontrovertible facts and what we read on here is wishful thinking at best.

I LOVE it when you get onto this. Because you try to have it both ways. You say 'its not a fluke to get our best points total in the Premier League era'. Simple retort to that is 'then why aren't we anywhere near that?' 'cupseason/europa/chest colds/blablabla'. If he is this supposed vaunted manager, then why are we soooooo far away from that EXCELLENT season. And Im not mocking it, it was amazing until that Crystal Palace match then we sort of just petered out.

...a surprising piece pf luck...over 38 games of football.

Lol.

And THERE it is! You are basing his skill over 38 games of football. In which 2 seasons in a row he has been found MASSIVELY wanting. Not cup runs. Not Europa. The league.

 

[orly]

43%

29 %

Phenomenal

 

[ianefc]

It was more the agreement with the other post, implying that foreign fans are somewhat lesser blues.

If this was not your intention then fair enough, no problem.

He is a lesser blue. Not because he's American but because he has absolutely hammered 38000 Evertonians on the regular, without murmuring a word about Martinez. To me that is way out of line. Like I say he has hammered 38000 Evertonians regularly so I hope I won't come under too much fire for criticising 1.

 

[davek]

Circumstances have changed. Moyes ironically despite his rethoric raised expectations at Everton by being team that constantly finishes at the top half.

Couple that with our strike force costing over 40 million alone compared to what Moyes had to work with then it's a no brainer.

He is asked to get over a higher bar because the bar has been raised.

Moyes got jibbed a few months into Man United ms first season. If he had taking Man United over pre Ferguson he would be granted more patience. Alas the "entitled" fans in this modern decade had him the sack and now they want LVG out. Quite rightly.

Moyes smashed the transfer record 4 times and he couldn't coach and play a decent attacker to save his life.

Let's not try and tell fairy stories about how Martinez has had it relatively better, given the huge amounts of cash ALL clubs now spend on fees.

Martinez is being judged with a criteria never deployed before: get CL footy or you're out....after three seasons...one of which had a final total that'd have got CL in most other seasons, btw.

 

[Goat]

Imagine having the same resources to work with as Paul Jewell and actually managing to do worse.

Dear lord, it was mad / bad enough we hired this fraud - but to give him a new deal after one season ...

Still speechless at the Barca shouts from 2 years ago.

 

[whiteshadow]

No, it wasnt, the managers before him managed 10th and 11th.

They sold Valencia, then in following seasons sold N'Zogbia and Moses before going down without having replaced those players.