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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
- Start date
- Status
JAYTALITY
Player Valuation: £30m
I'll debate Davek for eternity. Where you @ Dave. In the words of Marven Gay, let's get it ooonn.
Kiwi
Say NO to Ginger Managers
hahahahaha.
Fudging the facts a bit mate.
Both Arteta and Pienaar joined on loan first, doesn't that mean as you put it they were limited risk signings and not actually good ones?
Doesn't matter how you sign them, if you sign good players you sign good players.
Isn't there indication of what Moyes may have been like with money from his time at Man u. Not completely his fault but it did look like players of a certain proven level didn't buy into his vision there.
It's not really going to be about the manager spotting quality, as we seem to have a very decent scouting system, as much as whether they will they come. And I still see a lot of players buying into what Martinez is looking to do more than they would have Moyes.
I personally think Moyes spent more than we think.
Yakubu, Johnson, Fellaini for example. He had money at times. Although I do think it was criminal the way he was denied the sell on fees to reinvest in the team.
Magus
Player Valuation: £8m
Uh-oh, left yourself wide open there Matty.
I did lol but it is early mate
"If" he already has. You mean not spend more? It's not really his buys that's the question as some are great some are poo. It's his inability to change tactics etc.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Another excellent piece from therussianlinesman
Pathetic defeat to Arsenal shows Everton the difference between the rule and the exception
2 Comments
If Everton’s 2-0 FA Cup quarter-final win over Chelsea enabled supporters to dream, 2-0 defeat to Arsenal reacquainted them with brutally unpleasant reality. A week on from the huge cup win, Everton put in one of the worst displays of the Roberto Martinez era, an anti-performance constructed almost entirely of errors which saw confidence transformed into ineptitude. Even for Martinez’s Everton, this was atrocious.
Arsenal arrived at Goodison in terrible form. One win in eight (against Hull) with two thirds of their trophy hopes dashed earlier in the week. 62 hours on from their schooling at the Nou Camp, the Gunners were vulnerable and yet Everton couldn’t have made it easier for them. Danny Welbeck’s convincing focal role in Arsenal’s attack continued impressively and man-of-the-match Alex Iwobi was excellent on his full Premier League debut, both took their goals well, but the Toffees’ awfulness should not be glossed over. For the first half, Everton’s players stood still or ran wildly out of position, passed with the measured dexterity of a wrecking ball and failed to understand that running directly at Arsenal players was not a good thing to do.
The extent to which suspended Gareth Barry was missed was as embarrassing as the failure to test David Ospina even after he got injured. Individually, it was dreadful. Joel Robles reacted slowly, Aaron Lennon could have tripled his speed, Ross Barkley and Lukaku created nothing, James McCarthy and Seamus Colem- actually, it’s too soon. But again, Martinez bodged his opportunity to influence proceedings. 2-0 up with 10 men against West Ham, he brought on a striker. 2-0 down to Arsenal, he brought on a centre-back. John Stones replaced the dire Muhamed Bešić and Everton and switched to what genuinely seemed a 3-6-1 formation: distant centre-backs, a mess, Lukaku. At one point, as Stones ran to support Lennon who was furthest forward, Lukaku collected the ball in centre-midfield before passing to Coleman alongside him. It was one of the most horrible bits of football I’ve seen.
Shambles
That shouldn’t happen in the Premier League. To put it bluntly, Newcastle don’t even do that. The very least you can expect is that a manager knows what formation his team is playing. I can’t say I was convinced of that on Saturday. And it got worse. Martinez used only one of his remaining changes: Gerard Deulofeu for Barkley. Despite their combined £20m transfer fees, neither Oumar Niasse nor Arouna Kone was deemed worthy of a single minute. An expensive, unsuitable duo, badly prepared, used at the wrong time and overlooked when required, while Lukaku is overplayed. It’s a wretched collection of shortcomings.
There are exceptions of course, but for every Lukaku, there’s an Alcaraz. And more to the point, it’s now clear that Martinez’s successes at Everton are indeed all exceptions. The brilliant development of Lukaku and Barkley is completely at odds with the detrimental influence on Stones, Coleman, Funes Mori, Mirallas, Howard, Jagielka and many others. The solid, sensible win against Chelsea was a deviation from the norm. Blunt, self-critical words after Saturday’s defeat were notable for their rarity and even then undermined by the suggestion the loss was “a one-off” which surely must be considered dark humour at this stage.
Under Martinez, Everton cannot be trusted at home, anywhere with a two-goal lead, on the back of a good result, or even when in-form. It’s become a farce. The team has degenerated beyond the status of laughing stock into the realm of pity. And whilst the potential for thrilling, quality-conquering wins will always remain part of Martinez’s repertoire, like Lukaku’s development, or the 3-0 hammering of a very similar Arsenal two years ago, or an honest post-match reflection, they will only ever be exceptions to the rule.
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Pathetic defeat to Arsenal shows Everton the difference between the rule and the exception
2 Comments
Arsenal arrived at Goodison in terrible form. One win in eight (against Hull) with two thirds of their trophy hopes dashed earlier in the week. 62 hours on from their schooling at the Nou Camp, the Gunners were vulnerable and yet Everton couldn’t have made it easier for them. Danny Welbeck’s convincing focal role in Arsenal’s attack continued impressively and man-of-the-match Alex Iwobi was excellent on his full Premier League debut, both took their goals well, but the Toffees’ awfulness should not be glossed over. For the first half, Everton’s players stood still or ran wildly out of position, passed with the measured dexterity of a wrecking ball and failed to understand that running directly at Arsenal players was not a good thing to do.
The extent to which suspended Gareth Barry was missed was as embarrassing as the failure to test David Ospina even after he got injured. Individually, it was dreadful. Joel Robles reacted slowly, Aaron Lennon could have tripled his speed, Ross Barkley and Lukaku created nothing, James McCarthy and Seamus Colem- actually, it’s too soon. But again, Martinez bodged his opportunity to influence proceedings. 2-0 up with 10 men against West Ham, he brought on a striker. 2-0 down to Arsenal, he brought on a centre-back. John Stones replaced the dire Muhamed Bešić and Everton and switched to what genuinely seemed a 3-6-1 formation: distant centre-backs, a mess, Lukaku. At one point, as Stones ran to support Lennon who was furthest forward, Lukaku collected the ball in centre-midfield before passing to Coleman alongside him. It was one of the most horrible bits of football I’ve seen.
Shambles
That shouldn’t happen in the Premier League. To put it bluntly, Newcastle don’t even do that. The very least you can expect is that a manager knows what formation his team is playing. I can’t say I was convinced of that on Saturday. And it got worse. Martinez used only one of his remaining changes: Gerard Deulofeu for Barkley. Despite their combined £20m transfer fees, neither Oumar Niasse nor Arouna Kone was deemed worthy of a single minute. An expensive, unsuitable duo, badly prepared, used at the wrong time and overlooked when required, while Lukaku is overplayed. It’s a wretched collection of shortcomings.
There are exceptions of course, but for every Lukaku, there’s an Alcaraz. And more to the point, it’s now clear that Martinez’s successes at Everton are indeed all exceptions. The brilliant development of Lukaku and Barkley is completely at odds with the detrimental influence on Stones, Coleman, Funes Mori, Mirallas, Howard, Jagielka and many others. The solid, sensible win against Chelsea was a deviation from the norm. Blunt, self-critical words after Saturday’s defeat were notable for their rarity and even then undermined by the suggestion the loss was “a one-off” which surely must be considered dark humour at this stage.
Under Martinez, Everton cannot be trusted at home, anywhere with a two-goal lead, on the back of a good result, or even when in-form. It’s become a farce. The team has degenerated beyond the status of laughing stock into the realm of pity. And whilst the potential for thrilling, quality-conquering wins will always remain part of Martinez’s repertoire, like Lukaku’s development, or the 3-0 hammering of a very similar Arsenal two years ago, or an honest post-match reflection, they will only ever be exceptions to the rule.
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This is about the best example I have seen of how illogical and bullying some of the arguments are getting now.
Somehow condemning him for both not playing these players while reserving the right to say they shouldn't have been played.
Every single team has off form squad members or ones that have not been given time yet. Certainly we've always had them.
Again the article states both that this wasn't typical of games this season but implies that it's an indication of everything that's wrong.
As I've personally said I'm a long way from blindingly believing in Martinez and I'm finding a lot of common ground with people who want him gone when these views are expressed with balance and genuine passion as I think is predominately true of fans judging by most of the posters on here. But those just bombarding him with wave after wave of illogical hate have left me feeling more entrenched in the idea he deserves more time. Not very logical on my behalf but we're all a big screwed up mess of logic and emotion. We wouldn't be watching at all if we weren't.
Jags..class
Player Valuation: £70m
One of the papers have linked us to lewis cook from Leeds with Stoke
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