Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[JAYTALITY]

I think most would see him as a safe pair of hands on that score. Give RM £40M net of cash and we'll see it triple in value in a couple of seasons.

Better in the market place than Moyes, and he was good too.

Look at that give Moyes his due and you start to sound like a fare reasonable person. And your point of view looks more credible.

Having said that if he is better that remains to be seen. Lukaku was prity much a low risk high stakes gamble. Everyone could see Lukaku was worth that punt already a proven boss striker at that age. But it still is a boby signing so I can't take it away. But as I was saying having said that Moyes still blows Martinez away in the finding nobodies and turning them into players worth tens of millions.

Heck our squad is full of them still. 60grand Seamus Coleman one example.

 

[Sentinel]

Things are not changing

I can see why you would say that but you can never rule out potential for events to change.

Couple of examples, many had written Andy Gray and Peter Reid off before they joined Everton. The arrival of those two transformed us. Look at Ranieri at Leicester, a mockery at one time. Now look what he's doing at Leicester.

 

[BernieWright13]

I wrote awhile back that what perhaps Martinez needs is a nadir moment. A low point. That we all have had in our lives. Well if you've lived long enough, you'll have one. It's when we learn the most about ourselves, our methods. Are we the actually architect of our own disasters.

You see I sincerely believe that Martinez, especially considering his age, has a lot of potential and talent already. The conundrum for me is, why isn't he producing it consistently. Well maybe he just needs that moment or even an epiphany. Maybe he just needs a break.

Now for some. Their patience has run out. It's time for him to go. Which is understandable. What I would suggest though, is some of the most successful leaders, sportsman, business people etc...have only really blossomed after their nadir or "road to Damascus" defining moment, when everything clicks into place.

What we could be seeing here is what story tellers refer to as a story arc. He's either the fool or the hero. The FA Cup will decide that.

Yeah right. Martinez needs a low point. Ffs, he's been trying to get up off his knees for over 12 months.
And if this really was a story, a work of fiction, no publisher would touch it

 

[whiteshadow]

No, not if the team has already a solid core, introducing kids and new players should be a steady and easy process that doesn't effect results. Take who you used for an example Alex Ferguson at United, or most good sides they don't torpedo the team successive complete failures of league finishes when blooding a few youngsters to an already relatively successful team .

Thier not exactly bunch of 16 year year olds out there either but thats a different argument.

It's just another lame excuse for his bad tactics to add o the pile.

Man Utd are one of the richest clubs in the world, it's a lot easier to introduce young players without it affecting results when you already have a lot of top class players and a strong squad.

Totally different ball game when you're not a cash rich club with a lot of depth to your squad.

 

[DrEFC]

I wrote awhile back that what perhaps Martinez needs is a nadir moment. A low point. That we all have had in our lives. Well if you've lived long enough, you'll have one. It's when we learn the most about ourselves, our methods. Are we the actually architect of our own disasters.

You see I sincerely believe that Martinez, especially considering his age, has a lot of potential and talent already. The conundrum for me is, why isn't he producing it consistently. Well maybe he just needs that moment or even an epiphany. Maybe he just needs a break.

Now for some. Their patience has run out. It's time for him to go. Which is understandable. What I would suggest though, is some of the most successful leaders, sportsman, business people etc...have only really blossomed after their nadir or "road to Damascus" defining moment, when everything clicks into place.

What we could be seeing here is what story tellers refer to as a story arc. He's either the fool or the hero. The FA Cup will decide that.

I honestly think if he could add a proper defensive string to his bow, we'd get somewhere. But we probably won't. Or one year out of how many prem years with teams leaking goals seem to suggest that.

 

[Jreverton1]

I think he's a rubbish manager and a thoroughly dislikable man behind his public front. I think he's a vindictive con man. I can't bear listening to a word of bullshit he utters... get rid as soon as practical

That's harsh but I agree totally...says it all really.

 

[JAYTALITY]

Man Utd are one of the richest clubs in the world, it's a lot easier to introduce young players without it affecting results when you already have a lot of top class players and a strong squad.

Totally different ball game when you're not a cash rich club with a lot of depth to your squad.

I hesitated to use Ferguson as an example cause I knew that be throne at me. There are many other examples. But from 92 - 98 United where nowhere near the top spenders compared to loads of others. He built a solid team and blooded youngsters.

Martinez had a solid team and tore it to shreds tactically and in league pedigree.

Moyes said it himself saying 'i hope he (Martinez) builds on what is already there because there is a great foundation to build on.' It looked like he was doing that in the first season till he completely tore up the defence manual.

 

[neo2020]

Yes we have - for periods of up to 75 minutes, too.

We do that, and it only takes the remaining time for the opposition to get themselves back into the game. It's been far too frequent an occurrence. Once every so many seasons I could maybe understand (Just about).

But at least three times this season alone? No. It's too much to be coincidence.

It's definitely no coincidence - it's exactly what you might expect from a young team with a terrible goalkeeper.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

I wrote awhile back that what perhaps Martinez needs is a nadir moment. A low point. That we all have had in our lives. Well if you've lived long enough, you'll have one. It's when we learn the most about ourselves, our methods. Are we the actually architect of our own disasters.

You see I sincerely believe that Martinez, especially considering his age, has a lot of potential and talent already. The conundrum for me is, why isn't he producing it consistently. Well maybe he just needs that moment or even an epiphany. Maybe he just needs a break.

Now for some. Their patience has run out. It's time for him to go. Which is understandable. What I would suggest though, is some of the most successful leaders, sportsman, business people etc...have only really blossomed after their nadir or "road to Damascus" defining moment, when everything clicks into place.

What we could be seeing here is what story tellers refer to as a story arc. He's either the fool or the hero. The FA Cup will decide that.

...he's actually quite a fascinating little man as he doesn't seem to fit a 'type', he has a myriad of traits about him too, some good, some bad. And I totally agree with ya RE that a big 'low' with him could well lead to a big high. But I somehow doubt it mind...

...The thing that strikes me as particularly strange with him is - clearly - he's an intelligent & savvy guy, supremely confident in his own ability and he talks like he is forever open to learning and adaption....yet his style of setting teams up (both here and there at the WIG) suggests otherwise because he never learns from mistakes, ever it seems (feels like at least)...it's like he does his homework in the manner of a MASSIVE swot, but only hands it in occasionally 'cos he's a bit of a scally (real bad analogy, I know).

For someone with such high self-esteem it strikes me that there may be a LOT of insecurity in his own ability too, especially as he's surrounded himself with a backroom staff that, for the most, peaks at average at very, very best (Dunc aside like).

Actually, disregard all that, I don't know what I'm on about.

*Tonights feature presentation was brought to you via Glenfiddich & Pineapple, WOTSITS & a big slipper.

 

[JAYTALITY]

You don't have confidence that the guy who convinced Lukaku to sign for us twice couldn't pull off the same trick with another player in the event Rom or other players leave?

Come on man, Rom is a one in a million. A top manager at a top club would have serious trouble replacing Lukaku. A lot of good things happened to get us Lukaku.
A serious talent under appreciated by a super club so throne out on loan. We had a unbelievable season, we were looking to come and grab champions league with a vengeance the season after. Even having said that Lukaku had plans to go back to Chelsea and fight for a place when unbelievably Murinho didn't want any of him. We came in with a big big offer, champions league hopefuls, had a fantastic loan spell.

It's not likely we can find ourselves in them circumstances and with that type of player again, under Roberto anyway imo.

 

[bluewally]

I wrote awhile back that what perhaps Martinez needs is a nadir moment. A low point. That we all have had in our lives. Well if you've lived long enough, you'll have one. It's when we learn the most about ourselves, our methods. Are we the actually architect of our own disasters.

You see I sincerely believe that Martinez, especially considering his age, has a lot of potential and talent already. The conundrum for me is, why isn't he producing it consistently. Well maybe he just needs that moment or even an epiphany. Maybe he just needs a break.

Now for some. Their patience has run out. It's time for him to go. Which is understandable. What I would suggest though, is some of the most successful leaders, sportsman, business people etc...have only really blossomed after their nadir or "road to Damascus" defining moment, when everything clicks into place.

What we could be seeing here is what story tellers refer to as a story arc. He's either the fool or the hero. The FA Cup will decide that.

I would have thought getting relegated with Wigan would be a nadir moment but he essentially didn't see a flaw in his methodology and shifted it here

 

[billycopper]

"He likes the team to be in control of the game, because he thinks it is the best way to win games. When you have the control, normally you have more chances and give up less chances. I don’t think that we are going to change [the risky style]. We have a pretty clear idea of how we have been playing for the last few years. Win or lose, we will stick with the same idea because that’s how we feel that we are doing well.

When results are not as good as expected there will be critics, but you need to deal with that. But the important thing is we stick together, and we know where we want to go. After we will finish winning or not winning, but we know which path we need to follow. He is very demanding of himself and his players. But once you get to know it, I think that for myself it is the way we like to play. We like to play with control, and he likes that."

That's Alonso describing Guardiola but he could just as easily be talking about Martinez.

 

[FisherEFC]

I can see why you would say that but you can never rule out potential for events to change.

Couple of examples, many had written Andy Gray and Peter Reid off before they joined Everton. The arrival of those two transformed us. Look at Ranieri at Leicester, a mockery at one time. Now look what he's doing at Leicester.

Both examples you cited are of arrivals whereas we've had the same mistakes over and over the past 2 seasons.

 

[n01efc]

Watching the Germany v England game and seeing the Germans try to play out from the back and lose the ball (Ali should have scored) - even the world champions get it wrong sometimes. Are we over critical at times, if that was at Goodison we'd all be moaning.

 

[Sentinel]

such high self-esteem

Doesn't such high self esteem so often come before a fall however?

essentially didn't see a flaw in his methodology

And it could be argued that the Wigan FA Cup win, maybe just validated his opinion, his philosophy Crucially ignoring his failure in getting them relegated. One thing is for certain, the intense scrutiny and pressure he is under now will be new to him. It won't have gone unnoticed.