Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Moomin]

More than you by the looks of it.

They were a poor defensive unit, fact. Don't give me all the cap about him selling all his players, he was at Wigan so replacing a bang average defender on a 25% reduction in salary is nothing at all.

Do you know who Titus bramble is???

The greatest English player to never win a cap.

 

[nsno-chris]

So him having to sell his best players has nothing to do with it? Nothing at all? I think you're sorely mistaken if you discount that as a major symptom of their demise.

Yes I know who Bramble is. You realize I have been following Everton for over 3 decades and by default the Premier League/First Division.

Well go and have a look at the players he brought when he was under this reduction to his wages, £9m on an Argie who played about 10 games and flopped; when we had to watch our budget we bought Marcus bent.

And I'm glad you know who bramble is, because bobby once said he should be playing for England, that's the level he has with his defenders

 

[nsno-chris]

The greatest English player to never win a cap.

The best

Titus, Titus, titus

 

[Ashtonian]

Its fact that Martinez is poor defensively. Its probably true that he will never change that either.

You could give him anyone in defence and it wouldn't change.

At least our good attack can beat the bottom three though

 

[ianefc]

Wigan Athletic goals conceded in PL

07/08 51
08/09 45
Martinez becomes Wigan manager
09/10 79
10/11 61
11/12 62
12/13 73

 

[ilikecheese]

But what does the long term have to do with our ability to compete this season. We've had a season free of European football and in the main the injuries haven't been too bad, to just talk about the future is a cop out to me. This squad is better than a big chunk of the league to Martinez' credit yet we are 12th with one of the leagues top scorers.

Except of course the injuries to Baines, Coleman, Stones, Jags, McCarthy, and Howard (which I don't think was an actual injury). Our entire defence has been injured...many of them at the same time.

 

[nsno-chris]

Wigan Athletic goals conceded in PL

07/08 51
08/09 45
Martinez becomes Wigan manager
09/10 79
10/11 61
11/12 62
12/13 73

Now throw Everton in there and we'll see s nice trend appearing

 

[Goat]

Except of course the injuries to Baines, Coleman, Stones, Jags, McCarthy, and Howard (which I don't think was an actual injury). Our entire defence has been injured...many of them at the same time.

We have replaced International players with International players, Howard apart, who lets face it, plays for a no mark International team anyway and in football terms is a non factor.

The Manager has these players, the same players that actually defended with ease for 5-6 years under Moyes, these players can no longer defend a cross, these players can no longer track a runner, they have had their defensive skills coached out of them in the blind hope of being able to play ticky taka football for 90minutes between the back 4.

 

[JAYTALITY]

That's because Martinez came in and changed the culture of the club around to one of open play and taking chances from the safe but dull Moyes era. Many blues lost their security blanket and never stopped whinging about it. Only fantastic results could ever quieten that lot down. Bang average PL results cant do that (never mind if some of the quality of Martinez's teams play when they get it right is easily the best we've seen since the HKI era). They'd never be pacified. Hence we have a referendum on martinez even since mid second season (not even that, in the autumn of that second season the divvy polls started sprouting up). THAT was ridiculous and unfair. Imagine what the poll result would have been, btw if we'd had one back in the day when Moyes had us 17th in the league...it'd have been almost 100% he had to go.

It's simple for me:

he's proven he can put together a very good league campaign; he's demonstrating now that he retains his ability to mount cup campaigns; he's put together the makings of a great squad - and cash now will be well invested.

I'm not particularly arsed what the hoofball nostalgia brigade want to happen. They wont find an echo chamber in the club's boardroom as they do on here. That is the determining factor here.

The first part of that translates to Martinez changed the club from a winning results based club into a club that looses more and can barely string two results together. And the fans are unhappy that them things have changed.

But with a bit of Davek mental jimnastics..

'security plankets'

'open play, taking chances'

Give someone with enough will power and time and they will construct a counter argument using analogies, distraction devices, spin and it will look convincing to a person that has a broken bs detector.

It's plain and simple. We are crap last season and this. Simple. Dress it up how you like

If we score 7 goals and look uber fantastic going forward. If we still end up drawing and loosing that game we are crap. Anything extra to add is bs and excuses.

As I said enough time and will power and you can make it look like loosing and drawing is excellent football, just once you stick the words open play and attacking football in there, Howar Kendall esk!

Christ.

 

[bluewally]

The main difference is that the people who are backing martinez are looking long term and giving him the chance to build something.

Looking at wages and transfer spend i think we should be around 8/9th. Next season 6th and upwards after.

However as @davek pointed out there were martinez threads popping up not even halfway into his 2nd sesson.

The main difference based on this forum is that "most" martinez out posters want to finish 5-7th and are angry that were in 12th.

Martinez backers want to see us being build into a regular top 4 side and are patient as we can see it being achieved.

Haha all the pro Martinez posters have pinned their hopes on the short term goal of a cup win.

Long term indicators are league positions and there's only one way his trend is going

And as for this wages nonsense you keep repeating. Ask Chelsea Leicester, city, newcastle and villa how that calculation works out

 

[ianefc]

Now throw Everton in there and we'll see s nice trend appearing

Everton
10/11 45
12/13 40
13/14 39
14/15 50
15/16 *41

* indicates after 30 games

 

[davek]

The first part of that translates to Martinez changed the club from a winning results based club into a club that looses more and can barely string two results together. And the fans are unhappy that them things have changed.
But with a bit of Davek mental jimnastics..
'security plankets'
'open play, taking chances'
It's plain and simple. We are crap last season and this. Simple. Dress it up how you like

If we score 7 goals and look uber fantastic going forward. If we still end up drawing and loosing that game we are crap. Anything extra to add is bs and excuses.

As I said enough time and will power and you can make it look like loosing and drawing is excellent football, just once you stick the words open play and attacking football in there, Howar Kendall esk!

Christ.

No, it's not plain and simple. Any dismissal of this season as such is 'plain' and certainly 'simple' though. The performances have been first rate at times and there's no one apart from people who's heads button up at the back who would deny we've deserved a lot more for the quality of our play. Results at home have been a major problem and constitute the basis on which any critique of Martinez is correctly built on, but home PL form is NOT the WHOLE season is it? It's more complex than that. Away form and cup form home and away have been very good.

So, no: it's not dressing up, it's a more accurate and less hysterical way of analysing a season's worth of football.

 

[Groucho]

I'm more than capable of dealing with a few words written on the internet, and I don't feel the need to go crying to forum moderators.

Again folks just to use this as an example of what we don't want you to do.

Taking on members in threads over bickering issues only leads to a mess of a thread. However capable you think you are of dealing with it, nobody else will want to read your petty squabbling.

As a result, to let threads flow as best they can, and to help us help you, we'd like you to use the report function first, and not as a last resort.

See something you don't like? Report it, then ignore it and carry on, and we will deal with the matter. Thanks.

 

[Goat]

No, it's not plain and simple. Any dismissal of this season as such is 'plain' and certainly 'simple' though. The performances have been first rate at times and there's no one apart from people who's heads button up at the back who would deny we've deserved a lot more for the quality of our play. Results at home have been a major problem and constitute the basis on which any critique of Martinez is correctly built on, but home PL form is NOT the WHOLE season is it? It's more complex than that. Away form and cup form home and away have been very good.

So, no: it's not dressing up, it's a more accurate and less hysterical way of analysing a season's worth of football.

David, we havent played nice football since Southampton away in September, that was the last time I actually enjoyed a game of football and felt entertained.

Yes the football was nice at times, LAST YEAR, but since the turn of the year we have played turgid ticky taka zombie football with as much end product as a Nun on a bender.

 

[davek]

David, we havent played nice football since Southampton away in September, that was the last time I actually enjoyed a game of football and felt entertained.

Yes the football was nice at times, LAST YEAR, but since the turn of the year we have played turgid ticky taka zombie football with as much end product as a Nun on a bender.

You just want hoofball back.