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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence


Results are only viewable after voting.
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@balggy

Getting late here so will try and make this short (edit lol)

But for Wham (many reasons for the loss not least Mori 2 headers to clear) weve been ok since Robles came in.

The defence of Coleman-Jags-Distin-Baines was built to be solid in the centre and allow the full backs to attack. The style of martinez first season of course also. Distin then goes off a cliff and martinez wants to play with wingers so the full backs need to be solid defensively.

Coleman -- better with lennon in front of him than Deulofeu and weak positionally.

Baines -- Never the best defensively and notable difference with Oviedo recently.

Stones -- Great article by Hoddle today highlighting that he will make mistakes the way he plays and comparing him to top ball playing CBs.

Jagielka -- Our best defensive player but always left free by the opposition as hes weak at passing.

Mori -- First season and looks good overall but needs to go up a level next season.

I think Stones and Mori next season need to be the starters so the defence can pass the ball out from the centre.

I also think we need a RB and would prefer a Thuram type player whose a man -mountain defensively. This for me is Kalidou Koulibaly whose a CB primarlily for Napoli but can play RB. Hes been one of the best defenders in Italy this and last season.

Left back we have an issue as we have Baines (can favourite) Oviedo (injury prone) Garbutt (who knows) and Galloway (needs a loan) and have to play Cleverley in front of Baines as hes not going to be great behind a winger...if Yarmolenko came in then Baines would be exposed every game i think.

I think if we sign a Rico/Leno level keeper and a Koulibaly type we will see a HUGE improvement defensively next season...then work on the left side with another solid left back signed perhaps the following summer. Could be too drastic to change so much in one window.

Id much rather see Koulibaly /Deulofeu than Coleman/Lennon....it has more upside for me...also would rather see a winger on the left than attacking full back baines leaving us exposed as needing cleverley in front of him.

I could be totally wrong of course but i also think Barry in DM needs McCarthy there to do the running and also those two need to be on the pitch together as they are greater than the sum of their parts....

So when i go on and on about the squad not being great for this style of play i think we need at minimum a GK/RB/CM/LW but i also think we need to focus a lot on the balance of full backs / wingers and the CB and DM combinations not only attacking but defending also.

If it was me id sell Baines this window and Coleman as well...bring in 2 top defensive monsters who can pass the ball out and a top keeper and i think we would see a massive step up.
 
No, it's not plain and simple. Any dismissal of this season as such is 'plain' and certainly 'simple' though. The performances have been first rate at times and there's no one apart from people who's heads button up at the back who would deny we've deserved a lot more for the quality of our play. Results at home have been a major problem and constitute the basis on which any critique of Martinez is correctly built on, but home PL form is NOT the WHOLE season is it? It's more complex than that. Away form and cup form home and away have been very good.

So, no: it's not dressing up, it's a more accurate and less hysterical way of analysing a season's worth of football.

I might judge a once of individual game the way your judging the seasons with excuses. Bit of bad luck, great attacking play at times just unfortunate. Took a few chances, didn't pay off.

We are looking at another bottom half finish. At this stage after a few seasons all I care about at this stage are results. I don't wanna hear the b-lox anymore. I was all ears last season. Not now.

After a stretch of seasons results don't lie, they don't deceive, they don't sugar coat, they can't be manipulated or argued against. Game to game yes it's more complex than that. But come the end of another season home and away the excuses don't matter anymore.

It's not complex unless you try make it so.
 

But what does the long term have to do with our ability to compete this season. We've had a season free of European football and in the main the injuries haven't been too bad, to just talk about the future is a cop out to me. This squad is better than a big chunk of the league to Martinez' credit yet we are 12th with one of the leagues top scorers.

Bournemouth game McCarthy injured and we collapse (Barry needs him alongside or else he hasnt got the legs).

Jagielka injured leaving Stones (developing 21 year old) alongside Mori (adapting to the league)

Besic injured so much....

Also for me Coleman and Baines not done well this season....i think they were great under Moyes and in Martinez first season BUT cant see them doing well with wingers in front of them....Oviedo for example whilst not top class made a huge difference to the left side.

Id like to see us invest in 2 absolutely top class full backs whose priority is defending and passing out from the back...not leaving us exposted positionally every game with very exciting attacking runs which in the end shouldnt be the type of players for this system.

Id actually wonder if Martinez sold coleman and Baines how mad the martinez out crowd would be OR would they feel that he's doing something proactive and positive to improve us?
 
Bournemouth game McCarthy injured and we collapse (Barry needs him alongside or else he hasnt got the legs).

Jagielka injured leaving Stones (developing 21 year old) alongside Mori (adapting to the league)

Besic injured so much....

Also for me Coleman and Baines not done well this season....i think they were great under Moyes and in Martinez first season BUT cant see them doing well with wingers in front of them....Oviedo for example whilst not top class made a huge difference to the left side.

Id like to see us invest in 2 absolutely top class full backs whose priority is defending and passing out from the back...not leaving us exposted positionally every game with very exciting attacking runs which in the end shouldnt be the type of players for this system.

Id actually wonder if Martinez sold coleman and Baines how mad the martinez out crowd would be OR would they feel that he's doing something proactive and positive to improve us?
Honestly mate I appreciate the effort but the only way to fairly asses our injuries is to compare them to others and that would be a mammoth task. For example UTD have been bombarded by then this season along with Arsenal. I think it's better to compare squads.
 

Just throwing this out there following my last 2 posts...

Perhaps Martinez looking at Baines for a DM/CM position may have been due to him seeing how he wasnt able to play LB the way he needs to fit his style amd system? Notable that hes a fan favourite (with good reason) and yet oviedo suits the team and style more since recently...

Just a thought.
 
Just throwing this out there following my last 2 posts...

Perhaps Martinez looking at Baines for a DM/CM position may have been due to him seeing how he wasnt able to play LB the way he needs to fit his style amd system? Notable that hes a fan favourite (with good reason) and yet oviedo suits the team and style more since recently...

Just a thought.

I see you have jumped on to the Baines hate train with David.

For the record, Leighton Baines has more talent in his toe than that jarg little clown Oviedo will ever have.
 
Just throwing this out there following my last 2 posts...

Perhaps Martinez looking at Baines for a DM/CM position may have been due to him seeing how he wasnt able to play LB the way he needs to fit his style amd system? Notable that hes a fan favourite (with good reason) and yet oviedo suits the team and style more since recently...

Just a thought.

Seeing as you said Baines isn't up to much...Why not Galloway? Martinez bought him...

Jus' sayin' ....
 

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