Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Eggs]

Not really, at the end of the day Bobby will go, sacked/mutual consent/another job/retire. I confidently predict it will happen sometime in the next 20 years.
What we have from day one is a bunch of 'supporters' who from day one demanding he be sacked, for no footballing reason at all, just because they want to be able to say they always knew he was rubbish from day1 (and some RS fans wanting to derail us in the same way we post on RAWK to derail them).
Over time they amplify every negative about the Club hoping to speed up his departure. Circumstances occur and some in the wider fanbase go off the manager over time, this is only natural, some will always look for the greener grass if they think things are stagnating.
We have now got to a point that whenever we win, it's written off as 'papering over the cracks and we can have a thoroughly toxic Home environment that the players don't like playing in. When we lose (no matter the reason) its days of insults against Bobby and the team.
A new manager isn't going to solve anything as the hate cycle will only start again and our better players will leave without Bobby.

...I really don't believe this. I think it's a horse before cart scenario where team performance ultimately lifts the crowd rather than the other way around. Supporters simply don't like what they're watching and it's only natural that they vent their displeasure. Ultimately everybody wants the same thing and it's the managers responsibility to deliver it.

 

[ianefc]

I agree completely that he can build a talented squad.

I question whether he can make the most of its potential/actual talent.

I don't know whether this is a bit hasty, but I'm now convinced 100% that he can't/never will.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Old Roberto is a confidence trickster. Loves using psychology with the players and getting them to 'believe' and feel confident.

It has its uses. Moyes, as has been documented well on these pages, didn't instil confidence (esp in big games). However, Moyes wanted structure, discipline and a game plan. Martinez leans too much the other way.

You can only go so far with one or the other. Can we see Martinez changing tack?

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

...I really don't believe this. I think it's a horse before cart scenario where team performance ultimately lifts the crowd rather than the other way around. Supporters simply don't like what they're watching and it's only natural that they vent their displeasure. Ultimately everybody wants the same thing and it's the managers responsibility to deliver it.

you look when the first Martinez out shouts came, a week after he started which was still a good month before preseason started
that was after a good couple of weeks of people not wanting him on other threads.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

What we have from day one is a bunch of 'supporters' who from day one demanding he be sacked, for no footballing reason at all, just because they want to be able to say they always knew he was rubbish from day1 (and some RS fans wanting to derail us in the same way we post on RAWK to derail them).
.

So those wanting a change of manager at the club are either doing so because they want an internet 'victory' or are kopites?

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Not really, at the end of the day Bobby will go, sacked/mutual consent/another job/retire. I confidently predict it will happen sometime in the next 20 years.
What we have from day one is a bunch of 'supporters' who from day one demanding he be sacked, for no footballing reason at all, just because they want to be able to say they always knew he was rubbish from day1 (and some RS fans wanting to derail us in the same way we post on RAWK to derail them).
Over time they amplify every negative about the Club hoping to speed up his departure. Circumstances occur and some in the wider fanbase go off the manager over time, this is only natural, some will always look for the greener grass if they think things are stagnating.
We have now got to a point that whenever we win, it's written off as 'papering over the cracks and we can have a thoroughly toxic Home environment that the players don't like playing in. When we lose (no matter the reason) its days of insults against Bobby and the team.
A new manager isn't going to solve anything as the hate cycle will only start again and our better players will leave without Bobby.

....I'd take up watching Ping-Pong if I were you mate.

And if a pro-footballer, as pampered & pandered to as they are, can't handle a smidge of pressure from their home support when, frankly, their performances at that home ground dictate it as being warranted and deserving...then, well, maybe they should consider the Ping-Pong as well...

Odd though that you'd still wish to be part of a support network so vitriolic & predictable. Well done on being part of the absolute exception.

Tickles me though, well it would if it wasn't so utterly grim, that some would sooner blame fellow fans for voicing opinion at GP (which comes as entitlement given you're paying to be there) rather that consider the management somehow responsible for it getting to that stage in the first place...

Incidentally, it's far from toxic ATM...granted, that may change depending on the upcoming home games and results thereof.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

So those wanting a change of manager at the club are either doing so because they want an internet 'victory' or are kopites?

try reading it again

 

[ianefc]

rare victories?? exactly the sort of bias I'm talking about.

Since the beginning of Jan we've won 8 games, lost 5 and drawn 2
The you call me blinkered.

I think that just points out that you can do what you want with stats. I doubt many who have had enough would accept victories over Dagenham and Redbridge, Carlisle and to a point the Bournemouth result as good enough reasons to sway their stance.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

try reading it again

Try making sense

 

[bring the ghost on]

What we have from day one is a bunch of 'supporters' who from day one demanding he be sacked, for no footballing reason at all.

Think this is unfair. A lot of people (myself included) supported Martinez in his first season (he made that pretty easy), gave him the benefit of the doubt in his second, and are gradually growing tired of watching the same mistakes and problems in his third.

 

[Eggs]

you look when the first Martinez out shouts came, a week after he started which was still a good month before preseason started
that was after a good couple of weeks of people not wanting him on other threads.

....you will always find folk who are unhappy, you have to accept that. What we have now is a huge amount of disquiet. Home performances and results are nothing to do with the crowd, to suggest they are is an excuse. Results are down to the way we manage games or more accurately how we fail to manage games.

 

[The Esk]

...a point that undermines your critique of this manager somewhat.

I have never said Martinez does not possess skills, and in fact have praised him for gathering together this particular squad.

The distinction however is that he does not possess all the skills and we will never progress to the levels the talent we have available with a manager lacking in some aspects of management.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

....I'd take up watching Ping-Pong if I were you mate.

And if a pro-footballer, as pampered & pandered to as they are, can't handle a smidge of pressure from their home support when, frankly, their performances at that home ground dictate it as being warranted and deserving...then, well, maybe they should consider the Ping-Pong as well...

Odd though that you'd still wish to be part of a support network so vitriolic & predictable. Well done on being part of the absolute exception.

Tickles me though, well it would if it wasn't so utterly grim, that some would sooner blame fellow fans for voicing opinion at GP (which comes as entitlement given you're paying to be there) rather that consider the management somehow responsible for it getting to that stage in the first place...

Incidentally, it's far from toxic ATM...granted, that may change depending on the upcoming home games and results thereof.

At no point have I said that Bobby and the Players are blameless, infact I've said repeatedly that there are things that need changing and improving.
Have you not noticed an improvement in out defence and set pieces since Christmas?
These things don't happen overnight. Changes in coaching and philosophy take weeks if not months to bed in properly so everyone know where they should be at all times and what they should be doing.
Just saying that playing in a toxic atmosphere doesn't help, especially if your a goal down. Surely there should be an element of encouraging them to come back instead of writing the game off and hurling abuse?

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

....you will always find folk who are unhappy, you have to accept that. What we have now is a huge amount of disquiet. Home performances and results are nothing to do with the crowd, to suggest they are is an excuse. Results are down to the way we manage games or more accurately how we fail to manage games.

Results aren't just down to the Manager though, the players, opposition and ref all play their part as well.
and I have already repeatedly acknowledged your 'large amount of disquiet' as being natural.

 

[The Esk]

Bottom line is that Martinez

Is managing a competitive decline whilst having the most talented squad we have had in 30 years.