Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[kithnou]

He's had 2 years to address it I doubt he's gonna change in the next 9 games,pretty obvious during he's time at wigan he won't address feck all.

Then we'll be looking at a finish of between 11-16th in the league.
Great watching people trying to put a positive spin on that.

 

[matty1878]

I'm guna wait till 6 tonight to moan more either way.

 

[Groucho]

individual errors defensively and lack of game-changing or game-holding substitutions have dirtied the waters. Much of that is down to the manager and ultimately he'll carry the can if it continues, but the players get away very lightly at times in my opinion.

You've summed up Everton 14/15 onwards for me there.

And while I'm far from convinced by Martinez, the players do get away scot free with a lot of the criticism.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Two great posts from you and @The Esk which, for me at least, give a balanced view of the situation without the mass hysteria and agenda-ridden angst of much of what we read on here with 'plotters' and 'cults'.

For what it's worth I'm firmly in the same mind set as you at the moment, and sometimes can't really articulate why....it is 'a feeling that something's brewing' but also that changing a playing culture that's been ingrained at Everton since the end of the glorious 80's just simply isn't an overnight job. Squad overhaul has been positive, some of our attacking play great to watch and the development if key players and youngsters is a joy to have. However, individual errors defensively and lack of game-changing or game-holding substitutions have dirtied the waters. Much of that is down to the manager and ultimately he'll carry the can if it continues, but the players get away very lightly at times in my opinion.

In their last season Wigan had the most individual errors leading to goals in the league. I don't think it's a coincidence.

 

[malcson]

I don't think managers add much value, by an large (talking about at the top level where everyone knows what they are doing). The exceptions at the top end - really strong managers, are well known. Seems very rare to get exceptions at the other end, where you can say that the raw material of the team could be 8 places higher with a better manager. Could you say that about any other team in the prem? Doubt it - and you could have said a similar thing last season (around 4 or 5 places higher). Roberto fits the bill here of a losing manager, sad to say - he's failing in a very obvious and conspicuous way, be amazed if he's here in May.

This post made absolutely no sense to me?

 

[malcson]

Mo Besic's comments in the media this week made me sigh. Martinez has taught him that he can do more than tackle and he seems quite proud of the fact that now having improved under Martinez, in some games "I have not made a single tackle"!!!!!

 

[evertony]

You've summed up Everton 14/15 onwards for me there.

And while I'm far from convinced by Martinez, the players do get away scot free with a lot of the criticism.

I don't think anyone is 100% convinced by any manager to be fair! and I can understand the criticism he gets. However, to turn round an Everton you need a focused plan and it seems he's steadfastly stuck to that plan in the belief it will bear fruit.

Defensively, he clearly relies on back room support and it's arguable that that is where things need to be changed or reinforced. As individuals we've got some great defenders and the signing of Funes Mori shows he or the club can spot a good defender.....likewise Galloway and the other young lad who followed Stones from Barnsley.
The problem seems to be the organisation and concentration defensively when playing the way we do. One main thing has changed since that great first season....tempo. We've gone from high tempo to no tempo and that's what frustrates everybody. I'm no expert so don't know why that's changed so dramatically but I think it's down to a relatively static and non-creative midfield. Not having a creative fulcrum in the team means we wait longer for a chance to open up which means the games much slower.
As I said....I'm no expert as you can tell....but watching Everton for over 40 years that's what I see.

 

[evertony]

In their last season Wigan had the most individual errors leading to goals in the league. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Surely that's true if any team that goes down.....most errors equals most lost points.

 

[oldblue]

Mo Besic's comments in the media this week made me sigh. Martinez has taught him that he can do more than tackle and he seems quite proud of the fact that now having improved under Martinez, in some games "I have not made a single tackle"!!!!!

Paul Bracewell was one of the most complete midfielders I've seen and very much the kind of player that Besic has the raw potential to emulate. His game was built around the idea that tackling was a last resort. Sounds to me that probably is an improvement from Besic

 

[malcson]

Paul Bracewell was one of the most complete midfielders I've seen and very much the kind of player that Besic has the raw potential to emulate. His game was built around the idea that tackling was a last resort. Sounds to me that probably is an improvement from Besic

I get that Besic needed to be a more rounded player, when we are conceding goals for fun having one of our defensive midfielders working on not tackling at all surely can't be right.

 

[oldblue]

I get that Besic needed to be a more rounded player, when we are conceding goals for fun having one of our defensive midfielders working on not tackling at all surely can't be right.

Well he said he finds he doesn't always need to tackle which isn't quite the same to me. I used to love playing against players whose first instinct was to tackle. The number of times you really need to tackle in a game is pretty limited.

 

[oldblue]

I don't think anyone is 100% convinced by any manager to be fair! and I can understand the criticism he gets. However, to turn round an Everton you need a focused plan and it seems he's steadfastly stuck to that plan in the belief it will bear fruit.

Defensively, he clearly relies on back room support and it's arguable that that is where things need to be changed or reinforced. As individuals we've got some great defenders and the signing of Funes Mori shows he or the club can spot a good defender.....likewise Galloway and the other young lad who followed Stones from Barnsley.
The problem seems to be the organisation and concentration defensively when playing the way we do. One main thing has changed since that great first season....tempo. We've gone from high tempo to no tempo and that's what frustrates everybody. I'm no expert so don't know why that's changed so dramatically but I think it's down to a relatively static and non-creative midfield. Not having a creative fulcrum in the team means we wait longer for a chance to open up which means the games much slower.
As I said....I'm no expert as you can tell....but watching Everton for over 40 years that's what I see.

Tempo is a huge problem to me. Not just under Martinez. Really hard to pinpoint where the problem comes from but partnerships on the pitch are crucial to it I think.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

You've summed up Everton 14/15 onwards for me there.

And while I'm far from convinced by Martinez, the players do get away scot free with a lot of the criticism.

I think this was true up until recently mate, and it does admittedly still hold true for some players, but I think people are cottoning on and rightfully questioning a few now. McCarthy and Cleverley in particular, both tidy players who I like, but have they done enough for us on their starts this year? I'd say absolutely not, they've both underperformed. Same goes for our defence at defending crosses, too often Jags/Stones/FM get are marking thin air for crosses, see West Ham's comeback as a prime example.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

The league doesn't matter (apart from that first season, and his overall win % over a certain number of games) but for anything else the league doesn't matter. It's all about the cups (this is where it's ok not to mention that first season).

Also presumably best not to mention last season when we went out of both domestic cup competitions at the first time of asking. Something that had never previously happened in our history.

 

[Groucho]

I think this was true up until recently mate, and it does admittedly still hold true for some players, but I think people are cottoning on and rightfully questioning a few now. McCarthy and Cleverley in particular, both tidy players who I like, but have they done enough for us on their starts this year? I'd say absolutely not, they've both underperformed. Same goes for our defence at defending crosses, too often Jags/Stones/FM get are marking thin air for crosses, see West Ham's comeback as a prime example.

Don't forget the apparent total apathy vs Arsenal.