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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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The real indicator as to whether this turnaround is good luck or good judgement is what he does with Howard when he is fit again. For me, dropping Robles would be pure incompetence and bloody mindedness and would and should be the final nail in his coffin! If on the other hand Robles stays in the team, it will show he is capable of changing his mind and worth perservering with?
 
degsy said:
I haven't changed my no vote yet...yet.

Despite all the la,la,la,la,la. fingers in ears, Martinez can do no wrong. All that was ever required was a few tweaks and a slightly different mind set. What I have been calling for, for 18mths.

The Goldilocks Option - not too much pure Moyes and not too much pure Martinez...but just right.

I seem to remember we had some sort of Improvement around this time last season.

So is it a temporary expediency to get to 40 points sharpish.

Or is it a Sea Change? the real deal, for ever and ever amen...Philosophy 2.0

Given the power vacuum at Board level he's not going anywhere any way.

my fear is it's only temporary and that will remain until I see at least the first 10 games next season...there I've admitted that he won't be sacked.

If he'd only come up with this in mid Nov. we would've been deservedly in the mix tucked in behind Leicester.

#onegameatatime
Click to expand...
As you know mate my vote was always a yes, but I have always agreed with your Goldilocks option.
Long may it continue
 
Tree13 said:
You don't have to imagine what I might say. You could read what I have already written about that exact scenario. In this very thread. I've quoted it below for you.

The "Martinez Out" sentiments have been fuelled not by individual results like the Cup exit to City, or the loss to Swansea. They are, for many people, a culmination of a general dissatisfaction with months of poor tactics leading to far too many dropped points.

Dec 2014: 3-0 loss at Southampton.
Dec 2014: 1-0 loss against Stoke at Goodison.
Dec 2014: 3-2 loss at Newcastle.
Jan 2015:2-0 loss at Hull.
Feb 2015: 2-2 draw with Leicester at Goodison.
March 2015: 2-0 loss at Stoke.
March 2015: 5-2 loss at Kiev.
April 2015: 1-1 draw at Swansea.
May 2015: 3-2 loss at Villa.
May 2015: 2-0 loss to Sunderland at Goodison.
August 2015: 2-2 draw against Watford at Goodison.
September 2015: 0-0 draw at Swansea.
November 2015: 3-3 draw at Bournemouth.
December 2015: 1-1 draw against Palace at Goodison.
December 2015: 1-1 draw at Norwich.
December 2015: 4-3 loss to Stoke at Goodison.
January 2016: 2-1 loss to Swansea at Goodison.
January 2016: 3-1 loss to City (semifinal 2nd leg)

That's quite a run of pony results, an they are regular enough that it prevents us from putting decent run of games together. Yes, we've had some very good ones during that period too, but we need to see the rubbish filtered out if we want to get back into contention for the European spots. I would personally like to be able to enjoy a 2-0 lead, rather than be soiling myself with fear that we're going to lose 3-2. Looking at the list above make me worry that our next three games are the type that Martinez typically loses. If he can keep this winning run going however, and make it six wins from six, that for me will be a sign of improvement.
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Quite a list you have pulled together there, all in your eyes very negative

Maybe to be consistent, why don't you pull together a list of all the results that have been positive and great to watch.

You won't as why would you.......
 
Shame on all the Martinez out posters that lumped on after a heart breaking defeat away to Man City.

The train is back on the tracks and the next stop is Europe and an FA Cup in the trophy cabinet.
 
people imagining stuff in their head. What exactly does "concentrate on the defence" mean here?? Do you guys actually imagine they train every week and just do keepy uppies and the defence sit around or only do passing drills? And that this is clearly shown in the stats so must be true?

So now apparently after having a weak defence for most of the last 18mths the boss showed up and said "right, lets concentrate on the defence".

Theres dozens of factors that go into how a team performs. Not just a manager sitting at the controls listening to Jason Derulo and turning things on and off with a button.

Serious MOTD/Tabloid level analysis all over these two Martinez threads.

- level of work done on training ground in one area
- players fit and available to play
- player form, mood and confidence and how many are up or down at any given time
- individual performances or errors affecting the overall gameplan
- quality of opposition or just some quality moments by the opposition attack
- random factor of reffing decisions going for/against us
- crowd moaning at every mistake from the kickoff and affecting decision making
- errors in tactics, team selection or subs
- momentum gained or lost due to previous results

Theres probably loads more. but every single game or result can be affected by some or all of the above and it all changes each week. Granted poor results over a long period can be fairly used to decide a manager needs changing, but it can still be a throw of the dice as you may lose a manager who is doing a lot right but many factors out of his control dont go for him.

Last season was a horror show for example but I still wonder what might have happened if you take out some of the dreadful individual errors in the first few months and we had gotten slightly better results. You cant underestimate how significant the effect of the low confidence levels on the rest of the season with us unable to get a run going to get out of that spiral. Likewise, to be balanced, how much better off would we be if Howard had been dropped ages ago. One is in the managers control, one isnt.

James McCarthy is a huge factor for me. Excellent in his first season. One of the worst in his second and then apart from maybe Howard the only one to carry the poor form into this season. Then he was looking at his best vs Bournemouth and we looked good at 2-0. He goes off injured and we collapse and further poor defensive showings follow in his absence. He comes back in and in the last three looks like the boss McCarthy from his first season and we have three clean sheets.

Vague supposition that the manager has suddenly decided to "concentrate on the defence" doesnt really mean anything. The fact is we see only a small % of what work is being done by the manager and players, and the results or performances are affected by so much more than that work or lack thereof.
 

He showed he can adapt the starting 11 to get results and drop his favourites since this poll so he's okay with me now.

But if he drops Robles and Funes Mori for Howard and Stones and the results will suffer because of that, i will want him out and nothing will make me change my mind after that.
 

Lowste said:
Quite a list you have pulled together there, all in your eyes very negative

Maybe to be consistent, why don't you pull together a list of all the results that have been positive and great to watch.

You won't as why would you.......
Click to expand...
Good lord man. Can you read? The next paragraph, straight after the list of poor results, includes the following words: "Yes we've had some very good ones during that period too, but we need to see the rubbish filtered out if we want to get back into contention for the European spots."

Rather than jumping to conclusions based on your on preconceptions, why not ACTUALLY READ what people write on here? I'm simply saying that Martinez has dropped an unacceptable number of points against less-than-stellar opposition due to his own tactical stubbornness - proved by our league position prior to the wins against Newcastle and Stoke.

For the record, I thought our results against Wolfsburg (both), Lille (both) Krasnodar away and Young Boys (both legs) were great. The 3-0 win against United at Goodison on April 26 2015 was brilliant. We had a run of seven wins from 1st March 2014 to 12th April 2014 which I thought was outstanding. The 3-0 win away at Southampton on August 15 2015 was delicious, as was the 3-1 win over Chelsea a month later. The first leg of the LC semi final against City was very good, as was the draw against the same opponents in the league, and the most recent run of three wins Martinez has put together brings some hope.

I'm genuinely surprised you need to have any of these great results pointed out to you, but happy to help you all the same.
 
Bluebonic said:
The real indicator as to whether this turnaround is good luck or good judgement is what he does with Howard when he is fit again. For me, dropping Robles would be pure incompetence and bloody mindedness and would and should be the final nail in his coffin! If on the other hand Robles stays in the team, it will show he is capable of changing his mind and worth perservering with?
Click to expand...

I suspect this is how a majority of fans feel
 

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