Zatara
Player Valuation: £100m
Just to add a little to this, there's some stating that this is a top 4 quality side...
How can it be when the "core group" of players are basically 19-24 year olds and like you stated, need at least another 18months of development (along with the team being strengthened) to really see their potential over 5 years since Martinez would have taken over.
There is limited depth up front and were relying on playing Lukaku every single game and even ignoring tiredness cannot change the tactics with a different type of player there. Additionally, we have poor keepers.
How this is already a top 4 side is beyond me.
However, if they keep developing and top new players are added this could be far better than top 4....just needs another couple of years to see how far it could go and even then will have another decade out of the top players.
How can it be when the "core group" of players are basically 19-24 year olds and like you stated, need at least another 18months of development (along with the team being strengthened) to really see their potential over 5 years since Martinez would have taken over.
There is limited depth up front and were relying on playing Lukaku every single game and even ignoring tiredness cannot change the tactics with a different type of player there. Additionally, we have poor keepers.
How this is already a top 4 side is beyond me.
However, if they keep developing and top new players are added this could be far better than top 4....just needs another couple of years to see how far it could go and even then will have another decade out of the top players.
I don't think top 4 is that unrealistic given how the top sides are faltering currently. However I get your point. We have about the 11th highest wage bill and find ourselves in a similar position in terms of money spent.
In that context a top half finish (between 10th to 7th) is not an outstanding performance but by no means sackable. I think thats the distinction people to struggle with. For me it isn't an either/or. Achieve all your goals or sack the manager. There is a middle ground. You can do ok, not excel but also not not under achieve enough to ensure you deserve the sack. To me sacking someone is quite a drastic action and not one I'd have for being half way up the league.
I am a big believer in continuity. In the long run chopping and changing would not benefit Everton as it doesn't benefit most teams. It costs a lot of money (when we don't have a lot) and the infrastructure we have built up would be lost. There is not much I credit the board with but I give Kenwright credit for resisting the boom and bust cycle that seems to dominate a majority of football clubs.
I always backed Moyes for that reason too. I was never delighted with his football, nor was I even that keen on the idea that all we could hope to achieve was a top 6 finish. However I don't think at any point, over a pro-longed period (of over a year/season) we underachieved enough to justify the sack. Likewise we were never massively threatened with relegation. Anyone who thinks either Moyes or Martinez have had us in a proper dogfight can't remember the days of the 90's!
The other key point in all of this though, which I have probably learnt from the Moyes time is I think I would want a manager who would have an idea/plan of some sort to get us to win things. I don't think we should just settle for a manager who guarentees us the gravy train of the premier league season after season however tempting it is.
The thing I like about Martinez (more so than his immediate results) is he has a longer term vision that he is aiming to get us challenging to win things. You can see that with him adopting a particularly attacking style, the use of that style all the way through to the youth teams and his desire to give young players an opportunity. Also his steadfast defence of keeping Stones at seemingly any cost (when many of us may have took the pragmatist line and sold).
In isolation it would be very easy to pick on any of the above things and attack him. However if you look at them as part of a wider picture what you see is a manager who is not prepared to just accept Everton as an average to decent side who will sell their best young players as soon as a top team wants them. That is what swings it for me with Martinez.
I think along the way Moyes lost hope of ever building a top team. If I ever got that sense from Martinez I would change that view too. Ultimately continuity only works if you are working towards something better and using that stability to good affect.
When I (and you/others) say 8th is ok it doesn't mean we are celebrating it. However it is acknowledging the limitations of being a club with about a quarter of the revenue of the top teams. The question isn't just about there where and now, but also have they got a plan going forward. If we can be stable in the here and now and be seen to be progressing then that will do me.
It may click this season and if it does we could finish 4th. However in 18 months, if Deulofeu, Barkley, Stones, Garbutt, Lukaku Browning and Galloway keep developing we are going to be in a really good position. Do we rally want to jettison that project? Are we real convinced there's a manager good enough to get the current crop to challenge for the title?