Roberto Martinez discussion

[bicycleheader]

Some good points raised above.

I think there is enough evidence to demonstrate or prove both sides of the Barry/McCarthy discussion. For every QPR game showing Barkley flying in midfield there are games where Barry is the absolute boss making our game tick along nicely.

The issue is consistency in general, in both ways of playing. Our players can´t seem to string a few games together where they are playing near their top level, so whatever the tactics we look off and the whole debate kicks off again.

People talk about Naisy/Lennon starting against Man U and offer up unoriginal complaints such as "too defensive" and "showing too much respect" when all you would have to do is watch the game and see that too many players just played crap that day. Poor control and passing and positioning all over the team. In a game like that I personally don´t think it would have made much difference whoever we picked out "wide". It wouldnt have changed the shockers some players had. Man U weren´t even that good, they had a win handed to them and just had to be decently solid....nothing more.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Do you want him sacked?
a simple yes/no would do

No.
I want him to bin off the crap bits of management though.

oh really? what made you change your mind?​

Martinez out

Martinez out.

Martinez out.

and that's only the obvious ones. There's plenty more in locked threads.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

oh really? what made you change your mind?​

and that's only the obvious ones. There's plenty more in locked threads.

Lol at you taking everything I've ever said seriously.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

oh really? what made you change your mind?​

and that's only the obvious ones. There's plenty more in locked threads.

He's worried we'll pip them to forth.

 

[chicoazul]

Both sides have some valid points. No need to polarise opposing sides as either wanting him fired or virtually wanking him off.

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. He's good but there's weird stuff he does that limits us. He's young so hopefully should get better himself.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Lol at you taking everything I've ever said seriously.

lollollollollollollol

ah... the old "Well of course I never mean anything I post)" response.

Classic.

RIP @Eric Djemba-Djemba's patter.

 

[Blue Cheese]

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Pull up a seat mate, he'll be gone ages trawling through threads looking for me saying something similar....

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

lollollollollollollol

ah... the old "Well of course I never mean anything I post)" response.

Classic.

RIP @Eric Djemba-Djemba's patter.

Quality that you didn't take in to account the context of any of those posts but you're on the wind up so I won't take it seriously.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

lollollollollollollol

ah... the old "Well of course I never mean anything I post)" response.

Classic.

RIP @Eric Djemba-Djemba's patter.

Loads of this going on from our resident Manc.

 

[mkrudden]

I think you're missing the point. I get how it's supposed to work, i'm saying that it doesn't work.

Teams know that all our threat comes from wide areas, they set up stifle it and so leave us with no way of breaking them down. We then end up passing the pall around slowly. Barry is not 'creative'. He is a very good footballer, with an excellent range of passing, but he cannot thread balls through tight areas, nor can he drive forward with the ball, committing players and creating space.

I think the fact we have failed to score in 4 of our 9 games so far shows that there is a problem. It is also worth noting that we needed another goal in the derby but never really looked like getting it, and our goals against West Brom all came when we had changed away from the set up you are talking about. Watch some of the games again, it's not that Barry and McCarthy are 'defensive' midfielders in these situations, sitting deep as a shield for everybody else. They get forward just as much as any pair of central midfield players, they just don't do anything when they get there.

We play a certain way which, at its best is very attractive, attacking and penetrative.
There are two reasons for me why this isn't achieved every game.

1) Players having an off day (see man utd result)
2) Injuries.

In both of these instances we need able deputies to our best 11. We don't have that.

You say that teams know that all our threat comes from wide areas, yet fail to acknowledge that we are missing Baines and were missing Coleman for a hefty chunk of the start of the season. Martinez looked to bring in Oviedo at left back, but he picked up an injury. He then picked Galloway who I think we can all agree, plays the game like a fearless CB at full back -full of endeavour, honest running, but lacks the fundamental skills that an attacking left back now needs in the modern game. I personally think that Martinez should be playing Mirrallas or Osman on the left i.e. someone who lacks a bit of defensive acumen but can either commit opposing full-backs (Mirrallas) or can execute something a little 'cuter' in the final third (Osman). Instead he has picked Naismith out there, I guess to protect Galloway. Again, I think this is wrong of Martinez and criticism of this selection is warranted in my opinion. But it's got nothing to do with central midfield.

On the other side of the pitch, Martinez has picked Browning and, then a combination of more attacking players ahead of him (and Coleman when he was fit). The right hand side of our play has looked impressive for the most part - whether it's been Deulofeu against WBA, or Kone vs Chelsea/Southampton. Again, I think Martinez made a mistake in picking Lennon against Utd. It was too-safe. But this isn't an issue with central midfield.

The point i'm making here is that team selection in the wide areas is causing us to look inconsistent, not in central midfield. Dropping Deulofeu, on the face of it, was very unlike Martinez as he has in the past played the younger players in the game after they made errors so their confidence isn't affected and they can put into practice what they learned from their previous game and mistake.

You make the statement of 'we needed another goal in the derby and didnt look like getting one", and by that you're suggesting a change of system? What about the fact that in the derby we were missing Coleman, Baines, Cleverley, Pienaar, Mirrallas. Players that we don't have the finances (another debate for another time) to have ready-made replacements for. Instead, the easy solution to some fans is "we should have dropped a holding player and thrown another man forward". It's not like we weren't putting Liverpool under pressure was it? We were missing some quality in the final third, in creating a goal threat. Whoever Martinez brings in will be giving the ball to these attacking players, not providing it himself.

You say that the midfield 2 don't offer protection I think they do, I'd throw your 'watch the games again" right back at you. Barry and McCarthy position themselves when we don't have the ball in the best place they can win it back. That might be not be sat on top of the 2 CB's, it might be trying to win the ball back higher, but their solely purpose is protection in these instances.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Quality that you didn't take in to account the context of any of those posts but you're on the wind up so I won't take it seriously.

In the context of wanting 'Martinez out', they are pretty clear to me.

In what way could you mean NOT wanting Martinez to be sacked by posting 'Martinez out'?

 

[ijjysmith]

Hold on, have people been taking @Eric Djemba-Djemba 's post seriously?!

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Hold on, have people been taking @Eric Djemba-Djemba 's post seriously?!

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear.

Where did I say that?I was merely seeking clarification of his position which seemed to be the complete opposite of all his previous posts. If he'd have admitted he wanted Bobby sacked in the first place then I'd have had no problem with it.

As it is I'm feeling that I'm coming over all cruel about it, as it's wicked to mock the afflicted. Perhaps in future he should get his Carer to check his posts the next time he starts bouncing his headwand off the keyboard? It would save him a lot of embarrassment.

 

[Saint Domingo]

In the context of wanting 'Martinez out', they are pretty clear to me.

In what way could you mean NOT wanting Martinez to be sacked by posting 'Martinez out'?

So you asked him a ridiculous binary yes no question on Martinez in a continuation of a ridiculous movement in here to push people into opposing camps. When he's answered down the middle you've trawled through and taken his posts out of context or from moments of intense frustration (we've all said stuff after bad defeats we don't mean) to try and prove that somehow he's back-pedalling just because you don't agree with his point of view on Martinez. It truly is baffling stuff.