Roberto Martinez discussion

[Kiwi]

Some people are having a laugh with their comments in this thread.

Utterly bananas.
Take a chill pill and give him to the end of the season. He's had one good season and one bad, this is the one for me where he shows us what he's really made of.
Tough start, done solidly enough, need to push on and break down teams that we should be beating over the next period through to January.

Pronouncements of doom and Armageddon with Martinez at the helm do you no favours and set you up to look like a tremulous cockwomble. Likewise those expecting top 4 need to take another look at whether they think that's a realistic expectation to demand with all things considered.
The manager isn't exempt from criticism either, he's made mistakes and he's made good decisions.
However he is still a young man and the make or break is whether he will continue to learn from his bad decisions and make better ones in the future.

So much angst.

 

[Saint Domingo]

So if the day before the season started and you'd looked at the coming fixtures you'd have been unhappy to see us a quarter of the way through having only beaten twice, after facing 7 of the top 8 from last year, while being only 4 points off 4th after what you considered a summer of failings.

Just where and what would you have found satisfactory then?

I don't look at who we're playing. We've beaten enough good teams and lost to enough trash teams under Martinez for it to really make a difference. I fancied us more against Chelsea than Watford. I envisaged that we'd throw away points because of our keeper and an unbalanced midfield. That's proven to be true. At times the likes of Barkley Stones Galloway and Lukaku have been in great form but we've not seen the points reflect this because the same limitations are still there. What I worry for is that when those aforementioned players don't play well (against United for example) we'll hit some bad form and didn't get the points we could have. Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea all wobbled at the start whilst we were supposedly in good form. We didn't make it count, regardless of opposition. I hope the next run of games against so called 'easier' opponents returns a load of points but it has not panned out that way in previous seasons.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

In the context of wanting 'Martinez out', they are pretty clear to me.

In what way could you mean NOT wanting Martinez to be sacked by posting 'Martinez out'?

Have a look at the context.

One of those posts was a response to Damon on a wind up. One was in a thread that no one took seriously and the other was after the loss against City this season and I didn't actually want him sacked after that. You know that not every single post on here is meant to be taken literally.

There were points last season when I would have happily seen him sacked. I was fed up with him after the Stoke game in particular and last season as a whole was no where near good enough but you asked me if I wanted him sacked now. Taking posts from months ago means absolutely nothing.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Have a look at the context.

One of those posts was a response to Damon on a wind up. One was in a thread that no one took seriously and the other was after the loss against City this season and I didn't actually want him sacked after that. You know that not every single post on here is meant to be taken literally.

There were points last season when I would have happily seen him sacked. I was fed up with him after the Stoke game in particular and last season as a whole was no where near good enough but you asked me if I wanted him sacked now. Taking posts from months ago means absolutely nothing.

So the answer is, you are happier with him now than you were last season.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

I don't look at who we're playing. We've beaten enough good teams and lost to enough trash teams under Martinez for it to really make a difference. I fancied us more against Chelsea than Watford. I envisaged that we'd throw away points because of our keeper and an unbalanced midfield. That's proven to be true. At times the likes of Barkley Stones Galloway and Lukaku have been in great form but we've not seen the points reflect this because the same limitations are still there. What I worry for is that when those aforementioned players don't play well (against United for example) we'll hit some bad form and didn't get the points we could have. Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea all wobbled at the start whilst we were supposedly in good form. We didn't make it count, regardless of opposition. I hope the next run of games against so called 'easier' opponents returns a load of points but it has not panned out that way in previous seasons.

Then this is a major mistake that you keep repeating and until you rectify it you'll always have unreasonable expectations and leave yourself open to mockery.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

So the answer is, you are happier with him now than you were last season.

Pretty much. We've had a decent start with some very difficult fixtures but he still seems reluctant to fix some big problems. Mainly his total lack of flexibility with the 2 DMs and his misplaced faith in the likes of Naismith and Howard for me.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Then this is a major mistake that you keep repeating and until you rectify it you'll always have unreasonable expectations and leave yourself open to mockery.

By that logic we have to go on a good run v the so called lesser teams then to bring back a respectable points tally for this season. I think someone raised a stat of 8 wins out the last 25 home games. That is therefore going to have to significantly change if you are of the school of thinking that the dropped points are ok because of the quality of opposition. I'm not saying we should have automatically beaten City or United. What I am saying is that we dropped points v Watford, Liverpool, Swansea and Spurs. Games we could have easily won. The manner in which we were beaten so easily at home by the Manchester clubs was also disappointing. Would it be unreasonable to have picked up a draw from one of the Manc games and converted two of those draws into wins? No. Then we'd be sitting in the top 4. Tough fixture list agreed, but we didn't take advantage of the opportunity that was there.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

By that logic we have to go on a good run v the so called lesser teams then to bring back a respectable points tally for this season. I think someone raised a stat of 8 wins out the last 25 home games. That is therefore going to have to significantly change if you are of the school of thinking that the dropped points are ok because of the quality of opposition. I'm not saying we should have automatically beaten City or United. What I am saying is that we dropped points v Watford, Liverpool, Swansea and Spurs. Games we could have easily won. The manner in which we were beaten so easily at home by the Manchester clubs was also disappointing. Would it be unreasonable to have picked up a draw from one of the Manc games and converted two of those draws into wins? No. Then we'd be sitting in the top 4. Tough fixture list agreed, but we didn't take advantage of the opportunity that was there.

Are you familiar with the "alternative league" on RAWK?..

 

[Saint Domingo]

Are you familiar with the "alternative league" on RAWK?..

No, I don't read that rubbish. For me there's 38 games a season. If you're playing well you should pick up points regardless of opposition because when you're not or you have a real injury crisis (and one or the other will come this season) we're not good enough to pick up lots of points.

We started off with some players in really good form but I just don't think we got enough points to reflect this.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Pretty much. We've had a decent start with some very difficult fixtures but he still seems reluctant to fix some big problems. Mainly his total lack of flexibility with the 2 DMs and his misplaced faith in the likes of Naismith and Howard for me.

Fair enough, I think with Howard we had bigger priorities last Summer but in Hindsight we probably should have tried to do something about it (I'm guessing we had a look at a few but weren't that impressed with what was on offer or what they'd cost). It's a bigger priority now and will be urgent next Summer (Keepers don't tend to move in Jan).
He sees the 2 DMs as the pivots in the team, he'd probably have liked Besic to have forced his way through a bit more and Gibson to be less injured but we really need the two of them to make the system work. The problem this season has been injuries to Coleman and Baines. It's meant that their covering job has mostly not been needed, I'm guessing Bobby just wants them to keep playing as if everyone was fit mainly because he doesn't want to completely change people's positions and roles for a few weeks while they are out. Yup, it does show a bit of inflexibility, but everyone knows what they should be doing at the moment. At the moment, sometimes it fires into life, sometimes it doesn't.
We're generally starting games nervously then growing into the game in the second half, if he solves that most of the rest of our problems will disappear.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

No, I don't read that rubbish. For me there's 38 games a season. If you're playing well you should pick up points regardless of opposition because when you're not or you have a real injury crisis (and one or the other will come this season) we're not good enough to pick up lots of points.

We started off with some players in really good form but I just don't think we got enough points to reflect this.

Right so teams only ever win when playing well and don't have injury concerns, and as soon as theyre not playing well or have injury problems they get beat. I hope you don't do the pools based on this theory because it's utter tripe. What happens when both teams are playing well without injuries or playing badly with injuries, I suppose that's an automatic draw.

Seemingly you've a very simplistic view.

 

[ijjysmith]

Ain't nobody we could who would be doing any better.

Well I'm yet to have been told who that could be.

He's not perfect but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Right so teams only ever win when playing well and don't have injury concerns, and as soon as theyre not playing well or have injury problems they get beat. I hope you don't do the pools based on this theory because it's utter tripe. What happens when both teams are playing well without injuries or playing badly with injuries, I suppose that's an automatic draw.

Seemingly you've a very simplistic view.

You're just trivialising any argument I put forward now. You know full well the point I'm trying to make. Yes it was a difficult start on paper but I still feel like even though we played well we dropped unnecessary points that we will rue later in the season. If you don't agree that's fine, but no point parroting back what I'm saying in a ridiculous fashion with a load of extreme absolutes in.

 

[bluestevon]

Ain't nobody we could who would be doing any better.

Well I'm yet to have been told who that could be.

He's not perfect but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

He has strengths and flaws as well, but hes still a young manager learning, so hopefully he can improve the weak areas, with an older manager they are set in stone already so wysiwyg.

First year and second balance out, third and onwards is how we need to judge him, plus remembering kendall etc and look at what he is building towards rather than judge the work in progress.

Honestly think in the modern climate, nobe of the great british managers would have succeeded due to the need it now culture that exists.

 

[Pat's Van]

Ain't nobody we could who would be doing any better.

Well I'm yet to have been told who that could be.

He's not perfect but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

is that from a song?