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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Next stretch of games will be an acid test. I'm hoping we will be able to put up a very good total and push on into the new year. The sad reality is if we play like last night though that won't happen. A stretch of games like this is the perfect barometer of our side's consistency. There is no excuse not to perform. No Europe, no mega moneyed teams, not many key injuries that we don't have cover for, it's not a transition period. Everton as a whole club, not just Martinez needs to stop finding excuses for everything and just perform.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Next stretch of games will be an acid test. I'm hoping we will be able to put up a very good total and push on into the new year. The sad reality is if we play like last night though that won't happen. A stretch of games like this is the perfect barometer of our side's consistency. There is no excuse not to perform. No Europe, no mega moneyed teams, not many key injuries that we don't have cover for, it's not a transition period. Everton as a whole club, not just Martinez needs to stop finding excuses for everything and just perform.
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You make an excellent point, but to me then spoil it with a redundant point of "the sad reality is if we play like last night though that wont happen". Isn't that the bleeding obvious?
Martinez was extremely risky last night in the side he played and deserves to be questioned, but I'd say it's pretty clear that the reason we were disjointed last night is because of the team he selected rather than anything else.
We havent played badly this season and kept within touching distance to the top after a monster opening 10 games.

Again, however, id agree with you - the next 10 games are imperative.
 
We've played all of last season top 8 so far in our ten league games

Chelsea (C)
Manchester City
Arsenal
Manchester United
Tottenham Hotspur
Liverpool
Southampton
Swansea City

Two wins, Three losses, three draws - so 9 points from a possible 24.
 
By god I'm blue said:
An absolute lie and a very strange way of trying to make me look like a doom and gloomer.

I am just a little more balanced than you judging by your posts and can see things from both sides. That way I don't have to make daft posts covering my arse when something goes either way :)

As I said in my post Saturday about 13 points out of 30....it's all a bit meh IMO! If you can take massive positives from that then we just look at things differently.

West Ham have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal (away), Livepool (away) Man City (away) and Crystal palace (away).....what was that drivvel about us having the toughest fixtures of any PL team? There is only Man U and Spurs that we have faced from the top 6 last season that they haven't yet and they have won all of theirs! Stop using made up blag tactics to undermine others posts Mr DaveK, I am fortunately not that dumb to swallow it.

Not trying to get into a slanging match with you here, I just notice you seem to adopt certain tactics when somebody does not go along with your point of view.
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Firstly, I said we have made a reasonable/good start to the season. Nothing unbalanced about that. Secondly, you downplay the fixture list we were handed for the first 10 games when almost everyone agreed at the start of the season it was horrendous (and with good reason, given 8/10 matches have been against top 8 teams from last season).

WHU and Leicester have had unbelievable starts to the season. Good for them. But they've had easier starts than us: WHU have played 4 games against top 8 teams from last season, Leicester 3 games. Let's see how they get on in the next 10 games.
 

davek said:
D'you know, by and large, I've not seen too much parking of the bus in this league this season. Now whether that's down to a general belief that the PL is so open that all teams are beatable and worth having a go at or it's just not happened so far yet I dont know. Apart from Pulis a few weeks back at WBA who started to revert back to the parked bus, I do think the approach this season by 'the minnows' is different, more open. So I wouldn't fret too much yet about teams coming to Goodison and shutting up shop.

Our defence is still ropey from set pieces or balls lumped in (Stones was shockingly statuesque for Norwich's goal last night). I'm hoping Funes Mori can add something there and Jagielka's absence could prove a boon for us. It's important we dont allow this chasing the game to become a defining feature of the season.
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I think you are right on that. It's partly down to lots of teams spending money this season. Nobody could say they had a "bad" pre season. Newcastle spent 50 million net. Sunderland signed a Dutch international Lens etc. I think that gave a lot of the fans of those clubs optimism and belief to go for the top 10.

I think now though as sackings kick in and the reality of a relegation dogfight as well you will start to see sides playing more cautiously. I hope Allardyce comes out and attacks. However Sunderland's best chance to win is to sit back, when they have the ball whack it forward and hope for a mistake from our defence and hope they can get some territory that they can turn into a cross.

To me the next 9/10 games are going to be massive for Martinez. We need to see whether against poorer teams we can play with a speed and intensity that makes us difficult to handle or whether we will adopt a more conservative approach.

I regret to say this as I want it to work for him and even if we are in 11th at Christmas I won't call for him to be sacked, but I think he will lose a lot of fans if he is seen to be cautious over the next few weeks. He could really regret not moving Howard on when he had the chance. A lot of fans have turned on Howard and I can't see him turning that round. If we continue to persevere with Naismith (or Cleverely) on the left wing when we have 3 wingers on the bench people will hold it against him if we don't win. The same for the Barry/McCarthy situation really.

I can understand all of the above selections. In fact given the harder games we've had I agree with all of them. I think it is time now too play with two wingers though. I am still nervous of taking Barry out of the team mind as I think he was one of our best players against Arsenal. Likewise dropping Howard would be a huge call but probably the correct one.

In many ways Martinez suffers from Moyes before him. All of the above were criticisms of Moyes who took the stability first approach too far.
 
mkrudden said:
You make an excellent point, but to me then spoil it with a redundant point of "the sad reality is if we play like last night though that wont happen". Isn't that the bleeding obvious?
Martinez was extremely risky last night in the side he played and deserves to be questioned, but I'd say it's pretty clear that the reason we were disjointed last night is because of the team he selected rather than anything else.
We havent played badly this season and kept within touching distance to the top after a monster opening 10 games.

Again, however, id agree with you - the next 10 games are imperative.
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I'm just making the point that my hopes and expectations are different. I want us to win lots of these games and sit in the top 4 around the Christmas period. I just struggle to see it based on the level we're playing at so far (not just last night). Hopefully though if we beat Sunderland we might just get on a winning roll.
 
By god I'm blue said:
An absolute lie and a very strange way of trying to make me look like a doom and gloomer.

I am just a little more balanced than you judging by your posts and can see things from both sides. That way I don't have to make daft posts covering my arse when something goes either way :)

As I said in my post Saturday about 13 points out of 30....it's all a bit meh IMO! If you can take massive positives from that then we just look at things differently.

West Ham have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal (away), Livepool (away) Man City (away) and Crystal palace (away).....what was that drivvel about us having the toughest fixtures of any PL team? There is only Man U and Spurs that we have faced from the top 6 last season that they haven't yet and they have won all of theirs! Stop using made up blag tactics to undermine others posts Mr DaveK, I am fortunately not that dumb to swallow it.

Not trying to get into a slanging match with you here, I just notice you seem to adopt certain tactics when somebody does not go along with your point of view.
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West Ham have produced some excellent results against top teams (still lost at Home to the likes of Bournemouth and Leicester mind).

However just because West Ham beat them doesn't mean they are bad teams.
 

orly said:
Four home, four away.

Agreed.
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I would say that was a 6/10 return. Likewise of the sides outside of the top 8 last season we have played West Brom and Watford neither of who are particularly easy either. You would say Leicester, palace and West Ham are the hardest of the rest but probably then West Brom with Watford not too far behind.

We have had none of Norwich, Bournemouth, Villa, Newcastle and Sunderland. We could really do with winning 4 out of 5 there.
 
Top 8, is almost half of the league. I don't mind taking a slapping from Arsenal away or even City but living in fear of the top 8 is a bit ridiculous. Swansea, Southampton, Liverpool, Spurs are nothing to be worried about. I expect us to perform (not necessarily win) home and away against these sides.

You have to punish the bottom 10 if you don't perform v the top 10. The points return was ok. It wasn't the world's hardest fixture list though. The tough teams were at home where we should be strong regardless of the opposition. We play everyone in the league twice anyway. When we're away at Liverpool City and United we might have wished we'd taken more than 1 point from the home fixtures.

The next ten 8 games will determine whether this start is viewed as good or not. In my opinion it was a slightly tricky start but we underperformed against some poor sides (Watford, Spurs, Liverpool, Swansea) and didn't show v good ones (United Arsenal City)
 
orly said:
Enough to not write tedious monster posts like yours abusing fans for having an opinion.

Tell us more on (subtlety might be lost on you here)

  • why Cleverly is a 'sex player' = Have you seen his face?
  • giving the most gifted youngster we've had in the last decade 'a go' is some sort of moment on the road to Damascus = Would he of been on over 100 games now under Moyes?
  • us not being 10 games into the season, it's 13 and we have won 4 within the 90 minutes = 10 league games, 3 cup games (all of which we have progressed)
  • Why other clubs being out of the competition is indicative of our own performance (when you think we've played Norwich, Barnsley and Reading (21st and 7th in their leagues, the latter two by the way) = In past seasons we have played gotd awful teams also and gone out. Dosent matter who you play it matters if you get through. Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs have proven no match is an easy match in this cup! (Except maybe if you were playing Blackpool)
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There is not much that needs adjusting to the way we play. Quicker passing can only come with more movement around the pitch and rather than ' stay on the wing, stay up top and stay central midfield' we need more fluidity in our play. We need what I would call a 'busy-bee' type player (Hoolahan last night was all over the place getting Norwich going. Maloney did the same at Wigan for Martinez and is now doing it at Hull) that can get around the pitch and control the game. He has tried Barkley, Naismith, Kone to varying degrees of success. It is something I am convinced Martinez will sort out, maybe it will take an addition in January that can get around the pitch and be the fulcrum to start controlling the game.

We have a run of games that can see us move up the table and it is a challenge for Martinez and the players.
 

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