Roberto Martinez discussion

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If we had the money to go out and make a huge signing every year, I guarantee you Martinez would find a way to get us into CL. He has been great in the transfer market; the board is holding him back tremendously.

With all the great youth players we have running around, one big signing could catapult us into the upper echelon of teams. My fear is we will be forced to sell Stones or Barkley because the board didn't have enough aspiration. We may never get to see this glorious youth system at full power because we can't keep our best players.
 
Osamabindiesel said:
If we had the money to go out and make a huge signing every year, I guarantee you Martinez would find a way to get us into CL. He has been great in the transfer market; the board is holding him back tremendously.

With all the great youth players we have running around, one big signing could catapult us into the upper echelon of teams. My fear is we will be forced to sell Stones or Barkley because the board didn't have enough aspiration. We may never get to see this glorious youth system at full power because we can't keep our best players.
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I think that's why there was so much hope pinned on getting Yarmolenko last summer.
 

davek said:
It's Sheedy's opinion and I'll take it over Kenwright's any day of the week.

He played young players, yes. But then he shelved them or loaned them out very quickly and didn't persevere with them. That's the point.
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They weren't good enough. He persevered for too long with some of them. Vaughan and Anichebe clearly weren't good enough but he kept Anichebe in particular in and around the first team for a long time. He can't even make the West Brom team now, Vaughan is at Huddersfield. Rodwell who he played every week cannot now make the team for the worst side in the league, likewise Gosling who he also played before he spat his dummy out.

Forshaw, Baxter, Duffy, Wallace, O'kane, Bidwell, all got run outs in the league and Europe. None were good enough. None have done anything since. O'Kane has come back to the prem but looks out of his depth.

The good ones, Rooney, Rodwell (for a period) Coleman, Barkley he played and kept them in the first team squad.

I'd buy this argument if there was a generation of previous Everyon academy players plying their trade in Europes top leagues for the likes of United, City, Chelsea etc. But it's not true, there's not one who has apart from Mustafi which Everton dropped the ball on but that can happen, we had Jags, Distin and Heitinga.

Moyes indulged too many average young players and far more than any top 6 side at the time did (how many kids did Liverpool Spurs, Arsenal, United, City and Chelsea bring through in the period Moyes was there?). It's not his fault that the players were not good enough, he gave them a chance, only a few delivered.

Martinez now has a far richer pool to pick from, but again apart from confirming Barkley in the first team as a starter he has only introduced one Everton academy player which is Tyias Browning, and he has started sporadically to cover injuries. Galloway (also covering injuries) and Stones were bought (the latter by Moyes) as players that would need refining in the academy but we're ready for the first team squad (they had been playing first team for their clubs already).

You could argue that Ledson could play instead of Barry, that with no natural number 10 that Dowell should be given a go, that Browning and Galloway should not have been dropped for Coleman and Baines. Where does it end? You don't like Moyes, I get it, but this insistence that he did nothing of any value is crazy. The youth players were not there to use as a whole, people can hysterically go on about isolated incidents 'but lad remember when he played Osman in that Sunderland game' but as a general principle the good young players we had, made it into the first team squad. The others, got a chance, but weren't good enough. This was a top 6 club not some academy finishing school. We were trying to qualify for Europe most seasons and the young players we had were not as good as the first teamed, nowhere near, which is why the likes of Osman Pienaar and even Hibbert are still in the squad.
 
davek said:
On Coleman: when he eventually did play him at RB after Blackpool showed him it was possible, he slung him out of the team after one mistake when he gave the ball away that led to a goal. He was very resistant to playing younger players. Barkley? He sickened that lad. No question. I half expected him to be loaned out to the Garston RBL at one point.

You say be reasonable about Mustaphi and Dier, but they were good players and he didn't spot it. I doubt they'd have left under Martinez given what we've seen with Galloway and Browning's development, do you?
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To a degree no, as we found out Mustafi and Dier wanted to move on at a quicker rate than Moyes allowed, to say that they wouldn't of got a chance is 80% wrong, I say 80% because we don't know for a fact what the plans for the two of them were.
In comparison to Martinez, why doesn't he start besic and drop Barry then if he believes in youth so much ?
Why didn't he keep Garbutt in the squad and move Oviedo to left wing cover ? If garbutt leaves and becomes a top level fullback it doesn't mean Martinez was anti-youth. It was simply a decision made at that moment in time, sometimes because they aren't good enough or because they want to move on quicker than the managers plans allow.
 
davek said:
I think that's why there was so much hope pinned on getting Yarmolenko last summer.
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And that doesn't guarantee you anything, but knowing that the board puts effort into the club and acquires talent consistently boosts morale. It gives them hope. Hell, look what the Jelavic and Gibson signings did for us. Even minor signings can have a HUGE impact on a season.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Dier has just now nailed down a spot in Spurs' team...in midfield. So we are beating Moyes for not making him a regular about 5 years ago? Ok got it.
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Neither lad was willing to stay and wait for a place, its to their credit, they believed in their own ability and went out and got first team football elsewhere, its amazing that people still have this idea that Moyes drove them both out.

I mean they basically did the same as Baxter did, but without the massive amounts of beak and with a lot more talent.
 
davek said:
They're chalk and cheese, steve. Martinez will be ambitious too, but there's no way he'd see himself as big as the club he's at now; whereas the other feller saw Everton as a door mat to wipe his feet on as he went on to greater things (unbelievably given his thimbleful of talent).
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Moyes was essentially a 'football man'.....with limited experience or knowledge beyond the world of playing and coaching. Martinez played football to a reasonable level, but is also a qualified physio, and more importantly, qualified in business and PR. He brings for more and a much wider range of talent and skill to the management table than Moyes ever could.
 
davek said:
Exactly. He had no need to replenish the squad, and he didn't. What he did was to tell everyone the club was ship shape and left a ticking demographic bomb for his successor to defuse.
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Yeah apart from buying Stones Oviedo Garbutt Junior Mirallas and Naismith in his last two seasons.
 

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