Roberto Martinez discussion

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SpurtingLesbian said:
Serious (non-loaded) question

is it all about final position for you? or does happiness, playing style, building a young team come into it as well.

Personally, I think Final position has a role in it as an indicator, but the feel is (generally) much better around the Club. It's not that I wouldn't like immediate results, but I can see we're building towards something and at least trying to be exciting about it (not that it always works)
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I agree fully with you. The long term is more important than short term fixing to get you a position or 2 higher knowing that its the best that can be hoped for. Get the ground work in and let the youngsters adapt to a strategy and if they come through then they are more than flexible and ready. Its a long job but its the way to go.
 

riddick said:
The problem with your question is that even if we are building towards something with a young team, if we finish low those younger players we are banking on to get better and we, as a result, increase our position, are likely to want to move on.
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That's always the risk if we don't show progress (or show progress but not quickly enough for some) and it all falls apart if the players aren't swept up in the belief, that's down to Bobby, his management and his cuddles. The team want to be fighting for things and we would always rightfully rightfully that the Club does that too. Bobby's big problem is inconsistency and injuries, for every 6-2 win there is a 3-0 humping. He's sorted out the midfield and attack from last season, now it's just a question of them actually doing it week in week out. The defence is now the problem (mainly down to injuries all the way across the back four) and it looks like he's acknowledged that after the last game. I imagine he'll now be concentrating on them for a bit to get them drilled, get replacements in where need (in Goal), then he'll pull the whole Team into the one big unit again.
It has been a rebuilding job, but we're over halfway now, next summer some of the old faces will drop away and we'll be almost complete. Personally (taking into account their faults), I feel the Team that is emerging has a real excitement to it. There is a buzz, and when we are good, we're very very good. We just need to fix the last broken parts and do it every week now.

Position wise I've always said that I'm not actually that bothered about where we finish as long as we're still in the chase for something at the top end of the table in the last few weeks of the season. Europe would be great, a Cup run would also be great. What I want is excitement and a team I can put what little hope I've got left in. I just think Bobby is in more of a position to give me that than Moyes ever was.
 
SpurtingLesbian said:
Serious (non-loaded) question

is it all about final position for you? or does happiness, playing style, building a young team come into it as well.

Personally, I think Final position has a role in it as an indicator, but the feel is (generally) much better around the Club. It's not that I wouldn't like immediate results, but I can see we're building towards something and at least trying to be exciting about it (not that it always works)
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I couldn't care less how we win as long as we win. Young players being boss, cheating, diving, old pros going for one last trophy, skanking it, I really don't care now.

It's been over 20 years since we won a pot. I just want one. Then do the building.
 
ijjysmith said:
I couldn't care less how we win as long as we win. Young players being boss, cheating, diving, old pros going for one last trophy, skanking it, I really don't care now.

It's been over 20 years since we won a pot. I just want one. Then do the building.
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so you won't have been complaining about slow patient possession based 'Bobby-Ball' tactics as long as we score more than we let in then?
 

Woolly Blue said:
The forum exists as a platform for debate about pasties, bumming, Everton and pics of animals humping.

Part of the job of a moderator is to encourage moderation in views, or fence sitting as it's otherwise known.
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We should have a verb for this practice, Chicolizing perhaps in reference to our resident zen master in this well practised art form?
 

SpurtingLesbian said:
Serious (non-loaded) question

is it all about final position for you? or does happiness, playing style, building a young team come into it as well.

Personally, I think Final position has a role in it as an indicator, but the feel is (generally) much better around the Club. It's not that I wouldn't like immediate results, but I can see we're building towards something and at least trying to be exciting about it (not that it always works)
Click to expand...

I think with Martinez in charge we're more likely to progress than we were a few years ago.

There may be a certain amount of having to backwards ( in league position ) to accomodate squad changes and a different way of playing, and there's some risk associated with that, but my gut reaction is we're more likely to win a trophy in the next few years than we have been for quite some time, purely due to a change in mentality.

As I've said a few times before, Martinez is slowly improving our squad, so as long as that continues then, apart from the odd fume, I'm happy to give him time. If it turns out he's not the man for the job, or he gets a better offer, then any successor is likely to inherit a better squad than Martinez did, which is a pretty good fall back situation if required
 
Woolly Blue said:
I think with Martinez in charge we're more likely to progress than we were a few years ago.

There may be a certain amount of having to backwards ( in league position ) to accomodate squad changes and a different way of playing, and there's some risk associated with that, but my gut reaction is we're more likely to win a trophy in the next few years than we have been for quite some time, purely due to a change in mentality.

As I've said a few times before, Martinez is slowly improving our squad, so as long as that continues then, apart from the odd fume, I'm happy to give him time. If it turns out he's not the man for the job, or he gets a better offer, then any successor is likely to inherit a better squad than Martinez did, which is a pretty good fall back situation if required
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My main concern is not what martinez does, but rather what he doesn't do. Granted the money we would make would make a difference compared to 3 years ago, but say come the end of the season, or even next if we be optimisitc and we havent made the top 4 again. the club coudn't stop a max exodus surely? Lukaku/barkely/del/stones/mirallas all get offers of champions league clubs, the club cant tell one or the other they have to stay as it would cause a massive issue in the dressing room. We start again with money in the bank but at what cost? The club isnt going to spend that level of investment.


For me, it has to happen now. We have to win something or finish top 4 this season and challenge the top 4 next season or we lose our best players. the frightening thing is, whereas moyes never took us to the next level, its now a question of whether martinez can do it because if he fails then i cant see us repeating this sort of progress.
 

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