Roberto Martinez discussion

[Woolly Blue]

My main concern is not what martinez does, but rather what he doesn't do. Granted the money we would make would make a difference compared to 3 years ago, but say come the end of the season, or even next if we be optimisitc and we havent made the top 4 again. the club coudn't stop a max exodus surely? Lukaku/barkely/del/stones/mirallas all get offers of champions league clubs, the club cant tell one or the other they have to stay as it would cause a massive issue in the dressing room. We start again with money in the bank but at what cost? The club isnt going to spend that level of investment.


For me, it has to happen now. We have to win something or finish top 4 this season and challenge the top 4 next season or we lose our best players. the frightening thing is, whereas moyes never took us to the next level, its now a question of whether martinez can do it because if he fails then i cant see us repeating this sort of progress.

Mirallas and CL clubs have been talked about for years, he's still here.

Deulofeu might go back to Barca to either play CL footie with them, or get sold on to someone else in that bracket, but that's not likely for a couple of years.

If he believes he's part of something which is progressing, Barkley will be reluctant to move

If Stones leaves, excellent as he is, we have Galloway, Browning and Mori coming through, with Holgate in the background too, so we'd get a big pot of money to spend.

Keeping Lukaku happy is the key. Strikers with his goal return aren't easy to come by, but, overall, though I take your point, I'm not massively concerned about it

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

they just cant stop themselves

'They' as in 'other Everton Supporters' you mean?

 

[Ihaters]

That we have money now, will have a massive impact on our ability to progress, it needs to be in the right hands so its not squandered, but we don't need to sell to buy anymore, and Martinez, armed with some spending money, has the ability to move us forwards imo.

 

[Ashtonian]

Mirallas and CL clubs have been talked about for years, he's still here.

Deulofeu might go back to Barca to either play CL footie with them, or get sold on to someone else in that bracket, but that's not likely for a couple of years.

If he believes he's part of something which is progressing, Barkley will be reluctant to move

If Stones leaves, excellent as he is, we have Galloway, Browning and Mori coming through, with Holgate in the background too, so we'd get a big pot of money to spend.

Keeping Lukaku happy is the key. Strikers with his goal return aren't easy to come by, but, overall, though I take your point, I'm not massively concerned about it

well no if we go on past history then it might not be concerning. my thought is that we have never had so many players together since the 80s that could play for a top club in the future. lukaku is our prized asset I agree, think his potential is limitless but a striker as good as him is clearly going to be in demand. I suppose that just means the money we get back is going to dwarf fellainis fee quite a bit. taking that into consideration I guess the aim has to be to put the team in a position where we can replace him rather than be fighting to keep him. For arguments sake imagine being able to sign a bacca or tevez alongside a yarmalenko/mouthino quality player with the money? I use them as an example but I mean signing top replacements to improve the 11 rather than buying potential.

 

[Jags]

we are like spurs under ardilles, score goals but always look like conceding. i don't find knowing we are close to conceding goals any minute exciting at all, nor some of the slow football. but if we end up consistently finishing in the top 6 doing it then im not complaining. i doubt it though.

Could argue it was a much different league back then to how it is now. The Palace/West Ham/Swansea/Southampton's of the league are much better, making it harder to find that slot between the top teams and the rest. Also, Spurs are better, and the rise of City, means that I would see 7/8th under Martinez as equal to 6th under Moyes.

 

[Ihaters]

Could argue it was a much different league back then to how it is now. The Palace/West Ham/Swansea/Southampton's of the league are much better, making it harder to find that slot between the top teams and the rest. Also, Spurs are better, and the rise of City, means that I would see 7/8th under Martinez as equal to 6th under Moyes.

Few minor issues with that..

We have had money to match those teams rise and keep ahead of them, Spurs are not better than when they had Bale and co, and City won the league whilst Moyes was there. If Martinez finishes 6th.. it will be the equivalent of Moyes finishing 6th. In fact because he's had actual money to spend, if anything it would be a little easier.

If our expectations under Martinez get much lower, we will be happy with not getting relegated.

 

[Stanley Parker]

If our expectations under Martinez get much lower, we will be happy with not getting relegated.

So exactly what do you expect Martinez to achieve?

 

[Ihaters]

So exactly what do you expect Martinez to achieve?

I'd expect a better manager than our previous one (which I am constantly informed is the case) to at least maintain the level the predecessor did, especially since he has the freedom to spend money and keep players now. I'd expect that from Martinez's successor too.

I only raised that as yet another example of the amusing contradiction going around about these two managers.

Moyes was always lowering expectations
Martinez has been raising expectations
Martinez getting 8th is the equivalent of Moyes getting 6th

That is the clearest example of lowering expectation I have seen.

 

[bicycleheader]

I will always prefer a boring win than a quality loss

I´m fine with that every now and then, and I guess most would be fine with it if brings the beginnings of success......but I think it´s different if you are talking long term or an overall approach.

I wouldn´t take the more boring part of Moyes term over the general direction we are taking now especially if we are still just floating in and out of European places and not going too far when in Europe. Even when the game is dull, at least I know (or believe) we are just playing piss poor for whatever reason rather than deliberately setting out to not lose, hit the front with a long ball and nick one goal.

Depends on what you´re looking for, and that old argument of it being a "results business" and only about winning. There´s a divide when it comes to that outlook and it eventually renders the discussion a bit pointless as it´s just two opposing ways of looking at the game.

 

[Skeleton Crew]

Look. This debate can be quashed with our shiny new trophy from the Capital One Cup. When we see Naismith hoist that lovely piece of metal and are blinded by the shine from Kone's smile this thread will be nothing but praise for Martinez. Blue skies and pink puffy unicorns dancing on rainbows.

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

Look. This debate can be quashed with our shiny new trophy from the Capital One Cup. When we see Naismith hoist that lovely piece of metal and are blinded by the shine from Kone's smile this thread will be nothing but praise for Martinez. Blue skies and pink puffy unicorns dancing on rainbows.

We'll lose in the final, then beat the same team that we lost to in the FA Cup Final.

 

[bicycleheader]

Look. This debate can be quashed with our shiny new trophy from the Capital One Cup. When we see Naismith hoist that lovely piece of metal and are blinded by the shine from Kone's smile this thread will be nothing but praise for Martinez. Blue skies and pink puffy unicorns dancing on rainbows.

Or pink elephants if you are Gibbopotamus.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

I'd expect a better manager than our previous one (which I am constantly informed is the case) to at least maintain the level the predecessor did, especially since he has the freedom to spend money and keep players now. I'd expect that from Martinez's successor too.

Does this take into account being left behind in the realms of mega spending that all the teams above us (Sky4) and some around us (RS, Spurs) can afford to do?
Staying at these levels is getting harder to do each year as the gap widens. Yes, we have a bigger income (Tv money.. etc) but our rivals have an even bigger one. It's simply more and more difficult to trad water league position wise than it once was.

this isn't an excuse for anything, it's a fact.

 

[Tubey]

Can he just.... stop talking absolute bollocks for a bit? Just a month or so, just to give me a break?

 

[Ihaters]

I´m fine with that every now and then, and I guess most would be fine with it if brings the beginnings of success......but I think it´s different if you are talking long term or an overall approach.

I wouldn´t take the more boring part of Moyes term over the general direction we are taking now especially if we are still just floating in and out of European places and not going too far when in Europe. Even when the game is dull, at least I know (or believe) we are just playing piss poor for whatever reason rather than deliberately setting out to not lose, hit the front with a long ball and nick one goal.

Depends on what you´re looking for, and that old argument of it being a "results business" and only about winning. There´s a divide when it comes to that outlook and it eventually renders the discussion a bit pointless as it´s just two opposing ways of looking at the game.

Id rather a quality win

To be fair, last seasons slow, lethargic, passing game, was some of the most boring football I've ever seen from Everton.
I wouldn't take the boring part of either manager, but you combine results and flair, then we are talking and hopefully that's where we are heading.